[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
- From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:51:58 -0700
Hey Eric. I was looking at the labeled pictures for the UI. I can't figure
out where you want me to display the information the player is claiming to
have. How did you want that to work?
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:27 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> i like the idea also although playing devil's advocate against my own idea,
> there's something really simple and clean about the $5 dollars for 1000 gold
> idea nick came up with... just because i would never do it doesn't mean the
> market isn't out there... and having more money doesn't make you a better
> player, if you suck you'll just have more money to lose to good players.
> Maybe we charge $5 dollars for 1000 gold and a month pass into the VIP area,
> that gives value to it. I think VIP passes should be purchasable w/ in game
> money too though...
>
> i dunno, i guess really the question is how hard will it be to implement
> from a tech viewpoint, and more importantly does the potential profit
> justify the work. if the answer is yes, then we will find a way to make it
> work from a design standpoint. :)
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I feel the same way as you. Honestly, I think paying real money for in
>> game stuff is retarded. Plenty of people out there think it's a great idea.
>>
>> I really liked the idea of having a VIP lounge where players who paid can
>> go in and they would get a higher payout.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:13 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> well lemme put on my 3 hats
>>>
>>> gamer hat: i hate spending real life cash for in game stuff
>>> designer hat: i dont like the competitive advantage real life cash gives
>>> to people with those resources over regular gamers
>>> capitalist hat: if people are stupid enough to give us $ for pirate dice
>>> gold, then let them *exhales cuban cigar smoke*
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> but i guess even if people find out how to get in game money for free,
>>>> we'd still get some people buyin it so shrug
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in
>>>>> game, but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a program
>>>>> that just edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they publish
>>>>> that program publicly and lots of people have it)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for
>>>>>> in game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that in-game
>>>>>> money on anything? that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea
>>>>>> down,
>>>>>> im just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> motivation to buy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope. I
>>>>>>> just meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc.
>>>>>>> Sorry
>>>>>>> for the tangent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible
>>>>>>>> idea, i was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay
>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>> life money for in game money.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> man, its rough. obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell
>>>>>>>> no" to a pay real $ for in game money system. its my opinion that
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> ebay ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a
>>>>>>>> hard
>>>>>>>> time spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> think of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill
>>>>>>>> monsters
>>>>>>>> for a month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword
>>>>>>>> or i
>>>>>>>> could sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who
>>>>>>>> had $$$
>>>>>>>> to spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the
>>>>>>>> economy.
>>>>>>>> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who
>>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork over
>>>>>>>> $$$
>>>>>>>> to cheat the system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the
>>>>>>>> game a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way,
>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or
>>>>>>>> maybe if
>>>>>>>> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice
>>>>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able
>>>>>>>>> to cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move. it
>>>>>>>>> would take
>>>>>>>>> sooo much work to get the security right and like get some kind of
>>>>>>>>> payment
>>>>>>>>> gateway working etc. Like you said it would make us a gambling
>>>>>>>>> website, and
>>>>>>>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the
>>>>>>>>> scope of
>>>>>>>>> what we are trying to do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash
>>>>>>>>>> for ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am
>>>>>>>>>>>> cool with charging real life cash for pirate dice money. we could
>>>>>>>>>>>> even make
>>>>>>>>>>>> an exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> honest and
>>>>>>>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously
>>>>>>>>>>>> would make
>>>>>>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the
>>>>>>>>>>>> demand for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you
>>>>>>>>>>>> can do with
>>>>>>>>>>>> that money that gives it value... i just dont know if that
>>>>>>>>>>>> principle
>>>>>>>>>>>> translates here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> paying for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> player should be able to have an alternative to earning money.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will want to play that mini game. In addition to making more
>>>>>>>>>>>>> minigame
>>>>>>>>>>>>> variety I think another way to earn money could be allowing the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> players to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> spend real money and save time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or an additional character.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flag players who buy money and only allow them to play with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who buy money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adult players.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are plenty of people out there who would rather spend a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few bucks in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why allow both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be enough money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play, so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante (depending on how many rounds of betting there are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause i am dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker where it creates a side pot for people to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue betting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person that is out of money would just win the main
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pot if he wins, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second place person would get the side pot... but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that seems clumsy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me. I would actually say we should just make it that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if someone doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough money to buy in for an entire game, they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are disqualified and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicked from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the pirate dice area, you start off with an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of gold and there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a medium and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game. We could also have a "loan shark"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NPC who offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the area that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free. I was thinking it could be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> like, you could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could make a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> catch all the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one is ever stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money? IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solid as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> model we would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player, first round starts with 3 visible dice rolled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and 1 hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in the game and call you would need to state
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have a greater
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than or equal hand than the person who called before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably best to go without for now. I could see it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potentially working in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2v2 version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how to proceed so i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured i'd better talk it out first. I think you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the right idea but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here's a way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls 1 hidden dice. (I think these amounts may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change when we play test
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coin and and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's combination, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2nd hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the game up a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-decided increment. For example it could go up 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round, or double
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled and its gone around to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highest combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rule to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it was infrequent while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were playing the actual game. I think pirate
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice might not need calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bluff at all, really when playing through just be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante'ing up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on you're essentially "calling their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff" - just like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reveal, after that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would work anyhow. One way I was thinking was at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any time, a person can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of claiming for their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, they still have to pay the ante-in fee to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call a bluff. Once bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lying, he forfeits and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pays a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise, if the accused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has to pay a tattler's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante. my problem with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any of these is it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enables a really easy kingmaker for people working
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> together, but i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if anyone has an idea how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want a large and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mods and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> public and then the next 3 dice to come out one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did when we played it, i wish i could. If you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out. Is it that if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out? Just tryin to wrap my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have progressively higher combinations of dice,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before you, so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with every turn. Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> misty and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played, we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point system where if you won you got 2 points,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folded you got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc. i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, its simple and easy while still keeping a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of course,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly complicates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did when we played it, i wish i could. If you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out. Is it that if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out? Just tryin to wrap my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list the players in the room (since there may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be more players than are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to work out some kinks in the game flow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game from a multiplayer perspective and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this game. Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way. Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bets manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player. I realize this is a slight
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deviation from the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective. Basically we can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 gold
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the stakes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this was a bit of omission when Alan and I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were trying to remember how we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played the game, there was some publicly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed amount of dice, either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice that are shared by all players or maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each players first 3 dice are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this will give something for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players to try to judge
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether the person is bluffing or not and to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to calculate the odds. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game was originally conceived of as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of the liar's dice game on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pirates of the carribean and texas hold'em,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so I am pretty sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that visible dice was part of what made the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game fun and playable. Sorry it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to explain via e-mail without having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is this: we could either have 3 dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> once everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a 2 are rolled. Now the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players roll their first 2 hidden dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 in his personal hidden dice, and claims he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has a pair of 3's. The rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players can see all he needed to do was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll one 3 himself in order to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get that pair of 3's so he is probably not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing. The game escalates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where every players first 3 dice are visible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to all players, and all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsequence dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games is figuring out the odds, trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get lucky on dice rolls and trying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to guess if other people are bluffing. Part
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of all three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having the visible dice is that tantalizing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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