[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:13:33 -0400

well lemme put on my 3 hats

gamer hat: i hate spending real life cash for in game stuff
designer hat: i dont like the competitive advantage real life cash gives to
people with those resources over regular gamers
capitalist hat: if people are stupid enough to give us $ for pirate dice
gold, then let them *exhales cuban cigar smoke*

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> but i guess even if people find out how to get in game money for free, we'd
> still get some people buyin it so shrug
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in game,
>> but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a program that just
>> edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they publish that
>> program publicly and lots of people have it)
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for in
>>> game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that in-game money
>>> on anything?  that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea down, im
>>> just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be their
>>> motivation to buy?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope.  I just
>>>> meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc.  Sorry for
>>>> the tangent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible idea,
>>>>> i was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay real life
>>>>> money for in game money.
>>>>>
>>>>> man, its rough.  obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell no"
>>>>> to a pay real $ for in game money system.  its my opinion that people ebay
>>>>> ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a hard time
>>>>> spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could only think
>>>>> of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill monsters for a
>>>>> month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword or i could
>>>>> sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who had $$$ to
>>>>> spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the economy.
>>>>> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who want
>>>>> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork over $$$
>>>>> to cheat the system.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the
>>>>> game a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way, 
>>>>> where
>>>>> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or like
>>>>> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or maybe if
>>>>> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice
>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able to
>>>>>> cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move.  it would take
>>>>>> sooo much work to get the security right and like get some kind of 
>>>>>> payment
>>>>>> gateway working etc.  Like you said it would make us a gambling website, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the scope 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> what we are trying to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz 
>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for
>>>>>>> ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  we could even 
>>>>>>>>> make an
>>>>>>>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless 
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously 
>>>>>>>>> would make
>>>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand
>>>>>>>>> for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> money that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle 
>>>>>>>>> translates
>>>>>>>>> here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen 
>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and
>>>>>>>>>> paying for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The
>>>>>>>>>> player should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not 
>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>> will want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame
>>>>>>>>>> variety I think another way to earn money could be allowing the 
>>>>>>>>>> players to
>>>>>>>>>> spend real money and save time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or
>>>>>>>>>> an additional character.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where
>>>>>>>>>>> you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money
>>>>>>>>>>> this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag
>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who buy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adult players.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are plenty of people out there who would rather spend a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few bucks in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play, so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante (depending on how many rounds of betting there are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause i am dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker where it creates a side pot for people to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue betting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person that is out of money would just win the main 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pot if he wins, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second place person would get the side pot... but that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.  I would actually say we should just make it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicked from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of gold and there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medium and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game.  We could also have a "loan shark" NPC 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free.  I was thinking it could be like, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is ever stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money?  IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solid as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game and call you would need to state that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have a greater
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than or equal hand than the person who called before you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to go without for now. I could see it potentially 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working in a 2v2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proceed so i figured
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'd better talk it out first.  I think you have the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right idea but here's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 hidden dice.  (I think these amounts may change when 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we play test for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coin and and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's combination, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game up a pre-decided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment.  For example it could go up 1 each round, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double each round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its gone around to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highest combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rule to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was infrequent while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were playing the actual game.  I think pirate dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might not need calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bluff at all, really when playing through just be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante'ing up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on you're essentially "calling their bluff"  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - just like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal, after that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would work anyhow.  One way I was thinking was at any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, a person can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claiming for their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff.  Once bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lying, he forfeits and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pays a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise, if the accused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay a tattler's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante.  my problem with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any of these is it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enables a really easy kingmaker for people working 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> together, but i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if anyone has an idea how to make 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want a large and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could.  If you can't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my head 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you,  so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> misty and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played, we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point system where if you won you got 2 points, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folded you got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, its simple and easy while still keeping a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of course, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly complicates 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could.  If you can't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list the players in the room (since there may be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more players than are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to work out some kinks in the game flow before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a multiplayer perspective and I have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game.  Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way.  Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the bets 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in whenever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the game or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player.  I realize this is a slight deviation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly and it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective.  Basically we can have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 gold a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or perhaps 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the first 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the stakes 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or bluff 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a bit of omission when Alan and I were 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to remember how we played
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game, there was some publicly displayed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of dice, either dice that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are shared by all players or maybe each players 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first 3 dice are displayed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this will give something for other players to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to judge whether the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is bluffing or not and to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calculate the odds.  The game was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> originally conceived of as a combination of the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liar's dice game on pirates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the carribean and texas hold'em, so I am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that visible dice was part of what made the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game fun and playable.  Sorry it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to explain via e-mail without having 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is this:   we could either have 3 dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rolled.  Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice.  Player one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sees he rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pair of 3's.  The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one 3 himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing.  The game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every players first 3 dice are visible to all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, and all subsequence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games is figuring out the odds, trying to get 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky on dice rolls and trying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to guess if other people are bluffing.  Part of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Having the visible dice is that tantalizing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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