farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for ingame money to buy tractors and such. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money > > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool with >> charging real life cash for pirate dice money. we could even make an >> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest and >> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless they >> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously would make >> us a gambling site :P >> >> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand for >> gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with that money >> that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle translates here >> quite yet, but possibly in the future! >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and paying for >>> stuff that is available to everyone. >>> >>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The player >>> should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not everyone will >>> want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame variety I >>> think another way to earn money could be allowing the players to spend real >>> money and save time. >>> >>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or an >>> additional character. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>> >>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where you >>>> have to pay for content. >>>> >>>> This may be different though. >>>> >>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money this >>>> way yeah (: >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>> >>>>> VIP anyone? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag >>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other players who >>>>>> buy >>>>>> money >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the game will >>>>>>> have better flow and be more of its own entity. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on games. I >>>>>>> think it opens of your audience to a wider range of adult players. >>>>>>> There are >>>>>>> plenty of people out there who would rather spend a few bucks in real >>>>>>> life >>>>>>> than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why allow both? After >>>>>>> enough time has passed on the game servers there will be enough money in >>>>>>> circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz >>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some stuff >>>>>>>>> about the game >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz < >>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies. :P >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play, so >>>>>>>>>>>> you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?) >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante >>>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many rounds of betting there are cause i am dumb >>>>>>>>>>>> right now >>>>>>>>>>>> lol) and if you don't you can't play? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like regular >>>>>>>>>>>>> poker where it creates a side pot for people to continue betting >>>>>>>>>>>>> and the >>>>>>>>>>>>> person that is out of money would just win the main pot if he >>>>>>>>>>>>> wins, and the >>>>>>>>>>>>> second place person would get the side pot... but that seems >>>>>>>>>>>>> clumsy to me. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I would actually say we should just make it that if someone >>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't have >>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are disqualified >>>>>>>>>>>>> and kicked >>>>>>>>>>>>> from the table until they have enough. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter the >>>>>>>>>>>>> pirate dice area, you start off with an amount of gold and >>>>>>>>>>>>> there's 3 games >>>>>>>>>>>>> of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium and then >>>>>>>>>>>>> a high >>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game. We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who offers to >>>>>>>>>>>>> loan small >>>>>>>>>>>>> amounts of money at high interest, and what i was thinking was if >>>>>>>>>>>>> you run >>>>>>>>>>>>> out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area that >>>>>>>>>>>>> can earn you >>>>>>>>>>>>> cash that is free. I was thinking it could be like, you could >>>>>>>>>>>>> work as a >>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could make a >>>>>>>>>>>>> mini bar >>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch all the >>>>>>>>>>>>> rats and >>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is ever >>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck and >>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> IE when you are "all in"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the game and call you would need to state that you have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greater than or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal hand than the person who called before you right? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go without for now. I could see it potentially working in a 2v2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pirate dice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so i >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured i'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better talk it out first. I think you have the right idea but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here's a way >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i was thinking it could work: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice. (I think these amounts may change when we play >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and claims a combination to open the match >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous person's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination, or fold >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a 2nd hidden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the game up a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment. For example it could go up 1 each round, or double >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 hidden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its gone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around to everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else, everyone reveals their dice and the highest combination >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wins. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while we were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> playing the actual game. I think pirate dice might not need >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling a bluff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at all, really when playing through just be ante'ing up and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're essentially "calling their bluff" - just like regular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the proof >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the pudding. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyhow. One way I was thinking was at any time, a person can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call "bluff" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the previous person's claim instead of claiming for their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff. Once bluff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is called, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the accused reveals his dice, if he was lying, he forfeits and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pays a liars >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante. Likewise, if the accused >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was telling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a tattler's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee equivalent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the round's ante. my problem with any of these is it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enables a really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy kingmaker for people working together, but i am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anyone has an idea how to make it work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still want a large >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and small >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and see >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you think. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a time? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played it, i wish i could. If you can't bet, you can't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise someones and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff them out. Is it that if you want to stay in you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to say something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as high or higher than one the last person said so that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to bluff someone out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to basically say you have something higher than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out? Just tryin to wrap my head around it hehe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, basically what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you said is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to have or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claim to have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before you, so >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> essentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn. Raising >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything when we played, we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a point system >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where if you won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you got called for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing you lost 3 points, etc. i don't really remember >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont think we bet... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its simple and easy while still keeping a high risk/reward >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for players who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue playing - I am, of course, open to other ideas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though! I was just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working through playing pirate dice in my head to make the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI and i realized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that betting, etc. overly complicates when you're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> essentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better hand on your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had forgotten >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that aspect of the game (the public dice). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we played it, i wish i could. If you can't bet, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't raise someones >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bluff them out. Is it that if you want to stay in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something as high or higher than one the last person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said so that to bluff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone out you have to basically say you have something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher than them to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head around it hehe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players in the room (since there may be more players >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than are sitting down). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to work >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out some kinks in the game flow before i finalize >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiplayer perspective and I have a problem w/ the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard raise/call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> format of poker in relevance to this game. Basically >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the gameplay comes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from divulging the type and combination of dice you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have, and since you tell >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or what you're pretending to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have) every turn, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting doesn't work in the conventional way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically I was thinking that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than escalating the bets manually as players, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think there should be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an "ante" to stay in whenever it is your turn, so you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the choice of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either folding out of the game or putting in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-defined ante, telling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or are pretending to have) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that either beats, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matches the previous player, or calling the bluff of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous player. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realize this is a slight deviation from the current >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design but I think it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will function much more cleanly and it makes more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense when put into a game >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. Basically we can have multiple stakes, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so there can be a high >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game where its 10 gold a round, or a low stakes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game where it's 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold per round, etc. or perhaps the amount of ante to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in per round >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escalated (i.e. it's low in the first couple of rounds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but when you get into >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 5th or 6th round the stakes get higher making it a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> riskier thing (and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus more fun!) to continue or bluff or call a bluff. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit of omission when Alan and I were trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember how we played the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game, there was some publicly displayed amount of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, either dice that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice are displayed, this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to judge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether the person is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game was originally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice game >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on pirates of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having that visible dice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry it is hard to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of me >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but what i mean is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this: we could either have 3 dice that are shared >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amongst all players >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once everyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are rolled. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now the players roll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their first 2 hidden dice. Player one sees he rolled >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a 3 and a 4 in his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal hidden dice, and claims he has a pair of 3's. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The rest of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll one 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> himself in order to get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not bluffing. The >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game escalates from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players first 3 dice are visible to all players, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all subsequence dice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls are hidden. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figuring out the odds, trying to get lucky on dice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls and trying to guess >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if other people are bluffing. Part of all three of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those things is giving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people hints to try to guess at what the other person >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> REALLY has. Having >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >