[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:22:16 -0700
That sounds like a good solution eric
So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play, so you have to
have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante (depending on
how many rounds of betting there are cause i am dumb right now lol) and if
you don't you can't play?
If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>
> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like regular poker where
> it creates a side pot for people to continue betting and the person that is
> out of money would just win the main pot if he wins, and the second place
> person would get the side pot... but that seems clumsy to me. I would
> actually say we should just make it that if someone doesn't have enough
> money to buy in for an entire game, they are disqualified and kicked from
> the table until they have enough.
>
>
> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter the pirate dice
> area, you start off with an amount of gold and there's 3 games of pirate
> dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium and then a high stakes game.
> We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who offers to loan small amounts of
> money at high interest, and what i was thinking was if you run out of $$$
> completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area that can earn you cash that
> is free. I was thinking it could be like, you could work as a bartender and
> the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could make a mini bar tending game,
> or you have to go in the backroom and catch all the rats and they give you a
> fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is ever stuck and completely unable
> to play...
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money? IE when you
>> are "all in"?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as well.
>>>
>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games are the most
>>> simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>
>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we would.
>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first round starts
>>> with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>> 2) remove raising
>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>
>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay in the game
>>> and call you would need to state that you have a greater than or equal hand
>>> than the person who called before you right?
>>>
>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best to go without
>>> for now. I could see it potentially working in a 2v2 version of pirate dice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the rest of the
>>>> areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so i figured i'd better talk
>>>> it
>>>> out first. I think you have the right idea but here's a way i was thinking
>>>> it could work:
>>>>
>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1 hidden dice. (I
>>>> think these amounts may change when we play test for balance, but this is
>>>> an
>>>> ok starting point)
>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and and claims a
>>>> combination to open the match
>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either put 1 coin in
>>>> and claim to top the previous person's combination, or fold out
>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a 2nd hidden dice is
>>>> rolled, also the amount to stay in the game up a pre-decided increment.
>>>> For
>>>> example it could go up 1 each round, or double each round, etc.
>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 hidden dice have
>>>> been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its gone around to everyone else,
>>>> everyone reveals their dice and the highest combination wins.
>>>>
>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to call bluff, we
>>>> kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent while we were playing the
>>>> actual game. I think pirate dice might not need calling a bluff at all,
>>>> really when playing through just be ante'ing up and continuing on you're
>>>> essentially "calling their bluff" - just like regular poker a bluffer can
>>>> keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after that the proof is in the
>>>> pudding.
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would work anyhow.
>>>> One way I was thinking was at any time, a person can call "bluff" on the
>>>> previous person's claim instead of claiming for their round, they still
>>>> have
>>>> to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff. Once bluff is called, the accused
>>>> reveals his dice, if he was lying, he forfeits and pays a liars
>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante. Likewise, if the accused was telling
>>>> the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a tattler's fee
>>>> equivalent
>>>> to the round's ante. my problem with any of these is it enables a really
>>>> easy kingmaker for people working together, but i am definitely all ears if
>>>> anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each round. be
>>>>> affected by the blinds? Do you still want a large and small blinds?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and see what you
>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and then the next 3
>>>>>>> dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it, i
>>>>>>>>> wish i could. If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and bluff
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> out. Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as
>>>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out you
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them
>>>>>>>>> out? Just
>>>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have progressively higher
>>>>>>>> combinations of dice, basically what you said is exactly right - if
>>>>>>>> you want
>>>>>>>> to stay in you have to have or claim to have a better combination of
>>>>>>>> dice
>>>>>>>> than the person before you, so essentially you're betting more and
>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>> to bluff them out with every turn. Raising and making bets is
>>>>>>>> redundant to
>>>>>>>> the premise.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and i'm pretty
>>>>>>>> sure we didn't bet anything when we played, we had a point system
>>>>>>>> where if
>>>>>>>> you won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if you got called for
>>>>>>>> bluffing
>>>>>>>> you lost 3 points, etc. i don't really remember though... but i dont
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> we bet...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round, its simple and
>>>>>>>> easy while still keeping a high risk/reward for players who continue
>>>>>>>> playing
>>>>>>>> - I am, of course, open to other ideas though! I was just working
>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>> playing pirate dice in my head to make the UI and i realized that
>>>>>>>> betting,
>>>>>>>> etc. overly complicates when you're essentially betting/bluffing
>>>>>>>> anyways
>>>>>>>> whenever you claim you have a better hand on your turn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had forgotten that aspect
>>>>>>>>>> of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it,
>>>>>>>>>> i wish i could. If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and
>>>>>>>>>> bluff them
>>>>>>>>>> out. Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as
>>>>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out
>>>>>>>>>> you have
>>>>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them
>>>>>>>>>> out? Just
>>>>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list the players in
>>>>>>>>>> the room (since there may be more players than are sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to work out some
>>>>>>>>>>>> kinks in the game flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from a multiplayer
>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective and I have a problem w/ the standard raise/call format
>>>>>>>>>>>> of poker
>>>>>>>>>>>> in relevance to this game. Basically the gameplay comes from
>>>>>>>>>>>> divulging the
>>>>>>>>>>>> type and combination of dice you have, and since you tell everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>>>>>> have (or what you're pretending to have) every turn, betting
>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the conventional way. Basically I was thinking that rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> escalating
>>>>>>>>>>>> the bets manually as players, I think there should be an "ante" to
>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have the choice of either folding
>>>>>>>>>>>> out of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the game or putting in a pre-defined ante, telling everyone what
>>>>>>>>>>>> you have
>>>>>>>>>>>> (or are pretending to have) that either beats, or matches the
>>>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>>>> player, or calling the bluff of the previous player. I realize
>>>>>>>>>>>> this is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> slight deviation from the current design but I think it will
>>>>>>>>>>>> function much
>>>>>>>>>>>> more cleanly and it makes more sense when put into a game
>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically we can have multiple stakes, so there can be a high
>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>> where its 10 gold a round, or a low stakes game where it's 1 gold
>>>>>>>>>>>> per round,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. or perhaps the amount of ante to stay in per round escalated
>>>>>>>>>>>> (i.e. it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> low in the first couple of rounds but when you get into the 5th or
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6th round
>>>>>>>>>>>> the stakes get higher making it a riskier thing (and thus more
>>>>>>>>>>>> fun!) to
>>>>>>>>>>>> continue or bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a bit of
>>>>>>>>>>>> omission when Alan and I were trying to remember how we played the
>>>>>>>>>>>> game,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there was some publicly displayed amount of dice, either dice that
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 3 dice are
>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to judge whether the
>>>>>>>>>>>> person is
>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds. The game was
>>>>>>>>>>>> originally
>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice game on pirates
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure having that
>>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable. Sorry it is hard
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>> this: we could either have 3 dice that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>> players
>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once everyone ante's up -
>>>>>>>>>>>> let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are rolled. Now the players roll their
>>>>>>>>>>>> first 2
>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice. Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a 4 in his
>>>>>>>>>>>> personal hidden
>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, and claims he has a pair of 3's. The rest of the players
>>>>>>>>>>>> can see all
>>>>>>>>>>>> he needed to do was roll one 3 himself in order to get that pair
>>>>>>>>>>>> of 3's so
>>>>>>>>>>>> he is probably not bluffing. The game escalates from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every players first
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 dice are visible to all players, and all subsequence dice rolls
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games is figuring out
>>>>>>>>>>>> the odds, trying to get lucky on dice rolls and trying to guess if
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> people are bluffing. Part of all three of those things is giving
>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>> hints to try to guess at what the other person REALLY has. Having
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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