[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 10:22:16 -0700

That sounds like a good solution eric

So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play, so you have to
have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)

in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante (depending on
how many rounds of betting there are cause i am dumb right now lol) and if
you don't you can't play?

If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> kent you have it exactly right i think.
> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like regular poker where
> it creates a side pot for people to continue betting and the person that is
> out of money would just win the main pot if he wins, and the second place
> person would get the side pot... but that seems clumsy to me.  I would
> actually say we should just make it that if someone doesn't have enough
> money to buy in for an entire game, they are disqualified and kicked from
> the table until they have enough.
> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter the pirate dice
> area, you start off with an amount of gold and there's 3 games of pirate
> dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium and then a high stakes game.
> We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who offers to loan small amounts of
> money at high interest, and what i was thinking was if you run out of $$$
> completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area that can earn you cash that
> is free.  I was thinking it could be like, you could work as a bartender and
> the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could make a mini bar tending game,
> or you have to go in the backroom and catch all the rats and they give you a
> fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is ever stuck and completely unable
> to play...
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money?  IE when you
>> are "all in"?
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as well.
>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games are the most
>>> simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we would.
>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first round starts
>>> with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>> 2) remove raising
>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay in the game
>>> and call you would need to state that you have a greater than or equal hand
>>> than the person who called before you right?
>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best to go without
>>> for now. I could see it potentially working in a 2v2 version of pirate dice.
>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the rest of the
>>>> areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so i figured i'd better talk 
>>>> it
>>>> out first.  I think you have the right idea but here's a way i was thinking
>>>> it could work:
>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1 hidden dice.  (I
>>>> think these amounts may change when we play test for balance, but this is 
>>>> an
>>>> ok starting point)
>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and and claims a
>>>> combination to open the match
>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either put 1 coin in
>>>> and claim to top the previous person's combination, or fold out
>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd hidden dice is
>>>> rolled, also the amount to stay in the game up a pre-decided increment.  
>>>> For
>>>> example it could go up 1 each round, or double each round, etc.
>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 hidden dice have
>>>> been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its gone around to everyone else,
>>>> everyone reveals their dice and the highest combination wins.
>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to call bluff, we
>>>> kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent while we were playing the
>>>> actual game.  I think pirate dice might not need calling a bluff at all,
>>>> really when playing through just be ante'ing up and continuing on you're
>>>> essentially "calling their bluff"  - just like regular poker a bluffer can
>>>> keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after that the proof is in the
>>>> pudding.
>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would work anyhow.
>>>>  One way I was thinking was at any time, a person can call "bluff" on the
>>>> previous person's claim instead of claiming for their round, they still 
>>>> have
>>>> to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.  Once bluff is called, the accused
>>>> reveals his dice, if he was lying, he forfeits and pays a liars
>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante.  Likewise, if the accused was telling
>>>> the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a tattler's fee 
>>>> equivalent
>>>> to the round's ante.  my problem with any of these is it enables a really
>>>> easy kingmaker for people working together, but i am definitely all ears if
>>>> anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each round. be
>>>>> affected by the blinds? Do you still want a large and small blinds?
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and see what you
>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and then the next 3
>>>>>>> dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it, i
>>>>>>>>> wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and bluff 
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as 
>>>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out you 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them 
>>>>>>>>> out?  Just
>>>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have progressively higher
>>>>>>>> combinations of dice, basically what you said is exactly right - if 
>>>>>>>> you want
>>>>>>>> to stay in you have to have or claim to have a better combination of 
>>>>>>>> dice
>>>>>>>> than the person before you,  so essentially you're betting more and 
>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>> to bluff them out with every turn.  Raising and making bets is 
>>>>>>>> redundant to
>>>>>>>> the premise.
>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and i'm pretty
>>>>>>>> sure we didn't bet anything when we played, we had a point system 
>>>>>>>> where if
>>>>>>>> you won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if you got called for 
>>>>>>>> bluffing
>>>>>>>> you lost 3 points, etc.  i don't really remember though... but i dont 
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> we bet...
>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round, its simple and
>>>>>>>> easy while still keeping a high risk/reward for players who continue 
>>>>>>>> playing
>>>>>>>> - I am, of course, open to other ideas though!  I was just working 
>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>> playing pirate dice in my head to make the UI and i realized that 
>>>>>>>> betting,
>>>>>>>> etc. overly complicates when you're essentially betting/bluffing 
>>>>>>>> anyways
>>>>>>>> whenever you claim you have a better hand on your turn
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had forgotten that aspect
>>>>>>>>>> of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it,
>>>>>>>>>> i wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and 
>>>>>>>>>> bluff them
>>>>>>>>>> out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as 
>>>>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out 
>>>>>>>>>> you have
>>>>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them 
>>>>>>>>>> out?  Just
>>>>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list the players in
>>>>>>>>>> the room (since there may be more players than are sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to work out some
>>>>>>>>>>>> kinks in the game flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from a multiplayer
>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective and I have a problem w/ the standard raise/call format 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of poker
>>>>>>>>>>>> in relevance to this game.  Basically the gameplay comes from 
>>>>>>>>>>>> divulging the
>>>>>>>>>>>> type and combination of dice you have, and since you tell everyone 
>>>>>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>>>>>> have (or what you're pretending to have) every turn, betting 
>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the conventional way.  Basically I was thinking that rather than 
>>>>>>>>>>>> escalating
>>>>>>>>>>>> the bets manually as players, I think there should be an "ante" to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have the choice of either folding 
>>>>>>>>>>>> out of
>>>>>>>>>>>> the game or putting in a pre-defined ante, telling everyone what 
>>>>>>>>>>>> you have
>>>>>>>>>>>> (or are pretending to have) that either beats, or matches the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>>>> player, or calling the bluff of the previous player.  I realize 
>>>>>>>>>>>> this is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> slight deviation from the current design but I think it will 
>>>>>>>>>>>> function much
>>>>>>>>>>>> more cleanly and it makes more sense when put into a game 
>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Basically we can have multiple stakes, so there can be a high 
>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>> where its 10 gold a round, or a low stakes game where it's 1 gold 
>>>>>>>>>>>> per round,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. or perhaps the amount of ante to stay in per round escalated 
>>>>>>>>>>>> (i.e. it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> low in the first couple of rounds but when you get into the 5th or 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6th round
>>>>>>>>>>>> the stakes get higher making it a riskier thing (and thus more 
>>>>>>>>>>>> fun!) to
>>>>>>>>>>>> continue or bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a bit of
>>>>>>>>>>>> omission when Alan and I were trying to remember how we played the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> game,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there was some publicly displayed amount of dice, either dice that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 3 dice are 
>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to judge whether the 
>>>>>>>>>>>> person is
>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds.  The game was 
>>>>>>>>>>>> originally
>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice game on pirates 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure having that 
>>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable.  Sorry it is hard 
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of me but what i 
>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>> this:   we could either have 3 dice that are shared amongst all 
>>>>>>>>>>>> players
>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once everyone ante's up -
>>>>>>>>>>>> let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are rolled.  Now the players roll their 
>>>>>>>>>>>> first 2
>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice.  Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a 4 in his 
>>>>>>>>>>>> personal hidden
>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, and claims he has a pair of 3's.  The rest of the players 
>>>>>>>>>>>> can see all
>>>>>>>>>>>> he needed to do was roll one 3 himself in order to get that pair 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of 3's so
>>>>>>>>>>>> he is probably not bluffing.  The game escalates from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every players first
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 dice are visible to all players, and all subsequence dice rolls 
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games is figuring out
>>>>>>>>>>>> the odds, trying to get lucky on dice rolls and trying to guess if 
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> people are bluffing.  Part of all three of those things is giving 
>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>> hints to try to guess at what the other person REALLY has.  Having 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?

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