Stupidity. On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for in > game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that in-game money > on anything? that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea down, im > just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be their > motivation to buy? > > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope. I just >> meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc. Sorry for >> the tangent. >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible idea, i >>> was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay real life money >>> for in game money. >>> >>> man, its rough. obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell no" >>> to a pay real $ for in game money system. its my opinion that people ebay >>> ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a hard time >>> spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could only think >>> of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill monsters for a >>> month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword or i could >>> sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who had $$$ to >>> spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the economy. >>> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who want >>> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork over $$$ >>> to cheat the system. >>> >>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the game >>> a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way, where >>> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or like >>> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or maybe if >>> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something... >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>> >>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool with >>>> charging real life cash for pirate dice money" >>>> >>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice money? >>>> >>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able to >>>> cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move. it would take >>>> sooo much work to get the security right and like get some kind of payment >>>> gateway working etc. Like you said it would make us a gambling website, >>>> and >>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the scope of >>>> what we are trying to do. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>> >>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for >>>>> ingame money to buy tractors and such. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool >>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money. we could even make >>>>>>> an >>>>>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest and >>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless they >>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously would >>>>>>> make >>>>>>> us a gambling site :P >>>>>>> >>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand >>>>>>> for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with >>>>>>> that >>>>>>> money that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle >>>>>>> translates >>>>>>> here quite yet, but possibly in the future! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and paying >>>>>>>> for stuff that is available to everyone. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The player >>>>>>>> should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not everyone >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame >>>>>>>> variety I >>>>>>>> think another way to earn money could be allowing the players to spend >>>>>>>> real >>>>>>>> money and save time. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or >>>>>>>> an additional character. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe >>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where >>>>>>>>> you have to pay for content. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This may be different though. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money >>>>>>>>> this way yeah (: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz < >>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag >>>>>>>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other >>>>>>>>>>> players who buy >>>>>>>>>>> money >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the game >>>>>>>>>>>> will have better flow and be more of its own entity. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on >>>>>>>>>>>> games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of adult >>>>>>>>>>>> players. >>>>>>>>>>>> There are plenty of people out there who would rather spend a few >>>>>>>>>>>> bucks in >>>>>>>>>>>> real life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why >>>>>>>>>>>> allow both? >>>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will be >>>>>>>>>>>> enough money >>>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz < >>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff about the game >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies. :P >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many rounds of betting there are cause i am >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumb right now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol) and if you don't you can't play? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker where it creates a side pot for people to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue betting and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person that is out of money would just win the main pot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if he wins, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second place person would get the side pot... but that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me. I would actually say we should just make it that if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicked from the table until they have enough. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold and there's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medium and then a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game. We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offers to loan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area that can earn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free. I was thinking it could be like, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could work as a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a mini bar >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the rats and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever stuck and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money? IE when you are "all in"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as well. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game and call you would need to state that you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a greater >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than or equal hand than the person who called before you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to go without for now. I could see it potentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working in a 2v2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of pirate dice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proceed so i figured >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'd better talk it out first. I think you have the right >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea but here's a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way i was thinking it could work: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice. (I think these amounts may change when we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play test for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and and claims a combination to open the match >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's combination, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fold out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a 2nd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game up a pre-decided >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment. For example it could go up 1 each round, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double each round, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its gone around to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highest combination wins. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infrequent while we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were playing the actual game. I think pirate dice might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not need calling a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff at all, really when playing through just be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante'ing up and continuing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on you're essentially "calling their bluff" - just like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after that the proof >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the pudding. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work anyhow. One way I was thinking was at any time, a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person can call >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claiming for their round, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once bluff is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was lying, he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forfeits and pays >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante. Likewise, if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the accused was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a tattler's fee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equivalent to the round's ante. my problem with any of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these is it enables >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a really easy kingmaker for people working together, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i am definitely all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ears if anyone has an idea how to make it work. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still want a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large and small >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see what you think. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could. If you can't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out. Is it that if you want >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in you have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, basically >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you said is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have or claim to have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, so essentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn. Raising >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything when we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played, we had a point >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system where if you won you got 2 points, folded you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got 0, if you got >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc. i don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really remember >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, its simple and easy while still keeping a high >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk/reward for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of course, open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to other ideas though! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice in my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head to make the UI and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly complicates when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're essentially >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a better hand on your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public dice). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could. If you can't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out. Is it that if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players in the room (since there may be more >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players than are sitting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out some kinks in the game flow before i >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalize things... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a multiplayer perspective and I have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem w/ the standard >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game. Basically the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're pretending to have) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way. Basically I was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the bets >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manually as players, I think >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in whenever it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is your turn, so you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the game or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting in a pre-defined >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretending to have) that either >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or calling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bluff of the previous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player. I realize this is a slight deviation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the current design but I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly and it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes more sense when put >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective. Basically we can have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple stakes, so there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 gold a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, or a low stakes game >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or perhaps the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of ante to stay in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of rounds but when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the stakes get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher making it a riskier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or bluff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or call a bluff. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bit of omission when Alan and I were trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember how we played the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game, there was some publicly displayed amount of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, either dice that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 dice are displayed, this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judge whether the person is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game was originally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game on pirates of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having that visible dice >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry it is hard to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of me but what i mean is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this: we could either have 3 dice that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared amongst all players >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rolled. Now the players >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice. Player one sees >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he rolled a 3 and a 4 in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pair of 3's. The rest of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 himself in order to get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not bluffing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game escalates from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every players first 3 dice are visible to all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, and all subsequence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls are hidden. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games is figuring out the odds, trying to get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky on dice rolls and trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to guess if other people are bluffing. Part of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all three of those things is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other person REALLY has. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having the visible dice is that tantalizing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hint. :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >