[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:17:03 -0700

I feel the same way as you. Honestly, I think paying real money for in game
stuff is retarded. Plenty of people out there think it's a great idea.

I really liked the idea of having a VIP lounge where players who paid can go
in and they would get a higher payout.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:13 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> well lemme put on my 3 hats
>
> gamer hat: i hate spending real life cash for in game stuff
> designer hat: i dont like the competitive advantage real life cash gives to
> people with those resources over regular gamers
> capitalist hat: if people are stupid enough to give us $ for pirate dice
> gold, then let them *exhales cuban cigar smoke*
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> but i guess even if people find out how to get in game money for free,
>> we'd still get some people buyin it so shrug
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in game,
>>> but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a program that just
>>> edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they publish that
>>> program publicly and lots of people have it)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for in
>>>> game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that in-game money
>>>> on anything?  that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea down, im
>>>> just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be their
>>>> motivation to buy?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope.  I just
>>>>> meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc.  Sorry for
>>>>> the tangent.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible idea,
>>>>>> i was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay real life
>>>>>> money for in game money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> man, its rough.  obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell
>>>>>> no" to a pay real $ for in game money system.  its my opinion that people
>>>>>> ebay ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a 
>>>>>> hard
>>>>>> time spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could only
>>>>>> think of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill monsters
>>>>>> for a month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword or 
>>>>>> i
>>>>>> could sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who had 
>>>>>> $$$
>>>>>> to spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the 
>>>>>> economy.
>>>>>> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who 
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork over 
>>>>>> $$$
>>>>>> to cheat the system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the
>>>>>> game a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way, 
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or like
>>>>>> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or maybe 
>>>>>> if
>>>>>> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice
>>>>>>> money?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able to
>>>>>>> cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move.  it would take
>>>>>>> sooo much work to get the security right and like get some kind of 
>>>>>>> payment
>>>>>>> gateway working etc.  Like you said it would make us a gambling 
>>>>>>> website, and
>>>>>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the scope 
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> what we are trying to do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz 
>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash
>>>>>>>> for ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen 
>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  we could even 
>>>>>>>>>> make an
>>>>>>>>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest 
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless 
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously 
>>>>>>>>>> would make
>>>>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand
>>>>>>>>>> for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do 
>>>>>>>>>> with that
>>>>>>>>>> money that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle 
>>>>>>>>>> translates
>>>>>>>>>> here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and
>>>>>>>>>>> paying for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The
>>>>>>>>>>> player should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not 
>>>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>>>> will want to play that mini game. In addition to making more 
>>>>>>>>>>> minigame
>>>>>>>>>>> variety I think another way to earn money could be allowing the 
>>>>>>>>>>> players to
>>>>>>>>>>> spend real money and save time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch
>>>>>>>>>>> or an additional character.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games
>>>>>>>>>>>> where you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money
>>>>>>>>>>>> this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flag players who buy money and only allow them to play with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who buy money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> adult players.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are plenty of people out there who would rather spend a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few bucks in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> why allow both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play, so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante (depending on how many rounds of betting there are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause i am dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker where it creates a side pot for people to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue betting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person that is out of money would just win the main 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pot if he wins, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second place person would get the side pot... but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that seems clumsy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.  I would actually say we should just make it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicked from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of gold and there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medium and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game.  We could also have a "loan shark" NPC 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free.  I was thinking it could be like, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could make a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is ever stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money?  IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solid as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in the game and call you would need to state 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that you have a greater
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than or equal hand than the person who called before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to go without for now. I could see it potentially 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working in a 2v2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> making the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how to proceed so i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured i'd better talk it out first.  I think you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the right idea but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> here's a way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls 1 hidden dice.  (I think these amounts may 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change when we play test
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> coin and and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's combination, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game up a pre-decided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment.  For example it could go up 1 each round, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or double each round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and its gone around to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highest combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rule to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was infrequent while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were playing the actual game.  I think pirate dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might not need calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bluff at all, really when playing through just be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante'ing up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on you're essentially "calling their bluff" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  - just like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal, after that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the proof is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would work anyhow.  One way I was thinking was at any 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, a person can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claiming for their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bluff.  Once bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lying, he forfeits and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pays a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise, if the accused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay a tattler's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante.  my problem with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any of these is it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enables a really easy kingmaker for people working 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> together, but i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if anyone has an idea how to make 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> each round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want a large and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could.  If you can't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you,  so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> misty and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played, we had a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point system where if you won you got 2 points, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> folded you got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, its simple and easy while still keeping a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of course, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> open to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly complicates 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did when we played it, i wish i could.  If you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> last person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list the players in the room (since there may be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more players than are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to work out some kinks in the game flow before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a multiplayer perspective and I have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this game.  Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way.  Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the bets 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in whenever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player.  I realize this is a slight deviation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective.  Basically we can 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 gold a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or perhaps 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the stakes 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a bit of omission when Alan and I were 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to remember how we played
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game, there was some publicly displayed 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of dice, either dice that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are shared by all players or maybe each 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players first 3 dice are displayed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this will give something for other players to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to judge whether the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is bluffing or not and to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calculate the odds.  The game was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> originally conceived of as a combination of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the liar's dice game on pirates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the carribean and texas hold'em, so I am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that visible dice was part of what made the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game fun and playable.  Sorry it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to explain via e-mail without having 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is this:   we could either have 3 dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 are rolled.  Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice.  Player one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sees he rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pair of 3's.  The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> one 3 himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing.  The game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every players first 3 dice are visible to all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, and all subsequence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games is figuring out the odds, trying to get 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky on dice rolls and trying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to guess if other people are bluffing.  Part 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of all three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Having the visible dice is that tantalizing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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