[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
- From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:33:55 -0400
i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for in game
money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that in-game money on
anything? that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea down, im just
saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be their
motivation to buy?
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope. I just
> meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc. Sorry for
> the tangent.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible idea, i
>> was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay real life money
>> for in game money.
>>
>> man, its rough. obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell no" to
>> a pay real $ for in game money system. its my opinion that people ebay
>> ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a hard time
>> spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could only think
>> of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill monsters for a
>> month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword or i could
>> sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who had $$$ to
>> spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the economy.
>> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who want
>> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork over $$$
>> to cheat the system.
>>
>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the game a
>> tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way, where
>> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or like
>> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or maybe if
>> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool with
>>> charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>
>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice money?
>>>
>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able to cash
>>> out in game money for real life money is a bad move. it would take sooo
>>> much work to get the security right and like get some kind of payment
>>> gateway working etc. Like you said it would make us a gambling website, and
>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the scope of
>>> what we are trying to do.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for
>>>> ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money. we could even make
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest and
>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless they
>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously would
>>>>>> make
>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>
>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand for
>>>>>> gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with that
>>>>>> money
>>>>>> that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle translates here
>>>>>> quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and paying
>>>>>>> for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The player
>>>>>>> should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not everyone
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame
>>>>>>> variety I
>>>>>>> think another way to earn money could be allowing the players to spend
>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>> money and save time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or an
>>>>>>> additional character.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe
>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where
>>>>>>>> you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money
>>>>>>>> this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag
>>>>>>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other players
>>>>>>>>>> who buy
>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the game
>>>>>>>>>>> will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on games.
>>>>>>>>>>> I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of adult
>>>>>>>>>>> players. There
>>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of people out there who would rather spend a few bucks
>>>>>>>>>>> in real
>>>>>>>>>>> life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why allow
>>>>>>>>>>> both?
>>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will be
>>>>>>>>>>> enough money
>>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many rounds of betting there are cause i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumb right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker where it creates a side pot for people to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue betting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person that is out of money would just win the main pot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if he wins, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second place person would get the side pot... but that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me. I would actually say we should just make it that if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicked from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount of gold
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and there's 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medium and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game. We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free. I was thinking it could be like, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money? IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game and call you would need to state that you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a greater
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than or equal hand than the person who called before you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to go without for now. I could see it potentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working in a 2v2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proceed so i figured
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'd better talk it out first. I think you have the right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea but here's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice. (I think these amounts may change when we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play test for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's combination, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a 2nd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up a pre-decided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment. For example it could go up 1 each round, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double each round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its gone around to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the highest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infrequent while we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were playing the actual game. I think pirate dice might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not need calling a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff at all, really when playing through just be ante'ing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up and continuing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on you're essentially "calling their bluff" - just like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the reveal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after that the proof
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work anyhow. One way I was thinking was at any time, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person can call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of claiming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once bluff is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was lying, he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forfeits and pays
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante. Likewise, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the accused was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a tattler's fee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equivalent to the round's ante. my problem with any of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these is it enables
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a really easy kingmaker for people working together, but i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am definitely all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ears if anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still want a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we played it, i wish i could. If you can't bet, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't raise someones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bluff them out. Is it that if you want to stay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in you have to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something as high or higher than one the last person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said so that to bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone out you have to basically say you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than them to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head around it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, basically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn. Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything when we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played, we had a point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system where if you won you got 2 points, folded you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc. i don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, its simple and easy while still keeping a high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of course, open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly complicates when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could. If you can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out. Is it that if you want
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players in the room (since there may be more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players than are sitting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out some kinks in the game flow before i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a multiplayer perspective and I have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game. Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way. Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the bets
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in whenever it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the game or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or calling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player. I realize this is a slight deviation from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective. Basically we can have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 gold a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or perhaps the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the stakes get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or bluff or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bit of omission when Alan and I were trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember how we played the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game, there was some publicly displayed amount of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, either dice that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 dice are displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judge whether the person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game on pirates of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having that visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry it is hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me but what i mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this: we could either have 3 dice that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared amongst all players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rolled. Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice. Player one sees
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a pair
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 3's. The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll one 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not bluffing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every players first 3 dice are visible to all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, and all subsequence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is figuring out the odds, trying to get lucky on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls and trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess if other people are bluffing. Part of all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having the visible dice is that tantalizing hint.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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