[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:39:03 -0700
but i guess even if people find out how to get in game money for free, we'd
still get some people buyin it so shrug
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in game,
> but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a program that just
> edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they publish that
> program publicly and lots of people have it)
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for in
>> game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that in-game money
>> on anything? that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea down, im
>> just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be their
>> motivation to buy?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope. I just
>>> meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc. Sorry for
>>> the tangent.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible idea, i
>>>> was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay real life
>>>> money
>>>> for in game money.
>>>>
>>>> man, its rough. obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell no"
>>>> to a pay real $ for in game money system. its my opinion that people ebay
>>>> ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a hard time
>>>> spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could only think
>>>> of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill monsters for a
>>>> month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword or i could
>>>> sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who had $$$ to
>>>> spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the economy.
>>>> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who want
>>>> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork over $$$
>>>> to cheat the system.
>>>>
>>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the game
>>>> a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way, where
>>>> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or like
>>>> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or maybe if
>>>> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>>
>>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice money?
>>>>>
>>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able to
>>>>> cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move. it would take
>>>>> sooo much work to get the security right and like get some kind of payment
>>>>> gateway working etc. Like you said it would make us a gambling website,
>>>>> and
>>>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the scope of
>>>>> what we are trying to do.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for
>>>>>> ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money. we could even
>>>>>>>> make an
>>>>>>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest and
>>>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless they
>>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously
>>>>>>>> would make
>>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand
>>>>>>>> for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> money that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle
>>>>>>>> translates
>>>>>>>> here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and paying
>>>>>>>>> for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The
>>>>>>>>> player should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not
>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>> will want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame
>>>>>>>>> variety I think another way to earn money could be allowing the
>>>>>>>>> players to
>>>>>>>>> spend real money and save time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or
>>>>>>>>> an additional character.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where
>>>>>>>>>> you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money
>>>>>>>>>> this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag
>>>>>>>>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other
>>>>>>>>>>>> players who buy
>>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> adult players.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are plenty of people out there who would rather spend a few
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bucks in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> real life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why
>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow both?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play, so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante (depending on how many rounds of betting there are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cause i am dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker where it creates a side pot for people to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue betting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person that is out of money would just win the main pot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if he wins, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second place person would get the side pot... but that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me. I would actually say we should just make it that if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicked from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold and there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medium and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game. We could also have a "loan shark" NPC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> who offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free. I was thinking it could be like,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money? IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> solid as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game and call you would need to state that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have a greater
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than or equal hand than the person who called before you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to go without for now. I could see it potentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working in a 2v2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proceed so i figured
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'd better talk it out first. I think you have the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right idea but here's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 hidden dice. (I think these amounts may change when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we play test for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's combination, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a 2nd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game up a pre-decided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment. For example it could go up 1 each round, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double each round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its gone around to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highest combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infrequent while we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were playing the actual game. I think pirate dice might
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not need calling a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff at all, really when playing through just be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante'ing up and continuing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on you're essentially "calling their bluff" - just like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the reveal,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after that the proof
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would work anyhow. One way I was thinking was at any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time, a person can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claiming for their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff. Once bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lying, he forfeits and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pays a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Likewise, if the accused
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to pay a tattler's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante. my problem with any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of these is it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enables a really easy kingmaker for people working
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> together, but i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all ears if anyone has an idea how to make it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still want a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could. If you can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out. Is it that if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, basically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you, so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with every turn. Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything when we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played, we had a point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system where if you won you got 2 points, folded you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc. i don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, its simple and easy while still keeping a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of course, open
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice in my
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly complicates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could. If you can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out. Is it that if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> list the players in the room (since there may be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more players than are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to work out some kinks in the game flow before i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a multiplayer perspective and I have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game. Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way. Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the bets
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in whenever it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the game or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player. I realize this is a slight deviation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly and it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective. Basically we can have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 gold a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or perhaps the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the stakes get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was a bit of omission when Alan and I were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to remember how we played
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game, there was some publicly displayed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of dice, either dice that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are shared by all players or maybe each players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first 3 dice are displayed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this will give something for other players to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try to judge whether the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is bluffing or not and to try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calculate the odds. The game was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> originally conceived of as a combination of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liar's dice game on pirates
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the carribean and texas hold'em, so I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty sure having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that visible dice was part of what made the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fun and playable. Sorry it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is hard to explain via e-mail without having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice in front of me but what i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is this: we could either have 3 dice that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are shared amongst all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rolled. Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice. Player one sees
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pair of 3's. The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not bluffing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every players first 3 dice are visible to all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, and all subsequence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games is figuring out the odds, trying to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky on dice rolls and trying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to guess if other people are bluffing. Part of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having the visible dice is that tantalizing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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