[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:29:59 -0400

Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.  :P

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> That sounds like a good solution eric
>
> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play, so you have to
> have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>
> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante (depending on
> how many rounds of betting there are cause i am dumb right now lol) and if
> you don't you can't play?
>
> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>
>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like regular poker where
>> it creates a side pot for people to continue betting and the person that is
>> out of money would just win the main pot if he wins, and the second place
>> person would get the side pot... but that seems clumsy to me.  I would
>> actually say we should just make it that if someone doesn't have enough
>> money to buy in for an entire game, they are disqualified and kicked from
>> the table until they have enough.
>>
>>
>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter the pirate
>> dice area, you start off with an amount of gold and there's 3 games of
>> pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium and then a high stakes
>> game.  We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who offers to loan small
>> amounts of money at high interest, and what i was thinking was if you run
>> out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area that can earn you
>> cash that is free.  I was thinking it could be like, you could work as a
>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could make a mini bar
>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch all the rats and
>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is ever stuck and
>> completely unable to play...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money?  IE when you
>>> are "all in"?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as well.
>>>>
>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games are the most
>>>> simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>
>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we would.
>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first round starts
>>>> with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>
>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay in the game
>>>> and call you would need to state that you have a greater than or equal hand
>>>> than the person who called before you right?
>>>>
>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best to go without
>>>> for now. I could see it potentially working in a 2v2 version of pirate 
>>>> dice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the rest of the
>>>>> areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so i figured i'd better talk 
>>>>> it
>>>>> out first.  I think you have the right idea but here's a way i was 
>>>>> thinking
>>>>> it could work:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1 hidden dice.
>>>>>  (I think these amounts may change when we play test for balance, but this
>>>>> is an ok starting point)
>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and and claims a
>>>>> combination to open the match
>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either put 1 coin in
>>>>> and claim to top the previous person's combination, or fold out
>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd hidden dice is
>>>>> rolled, also the amount to stay in the game up a pre-decided increment.  
>>>>> For
>>>>> example it could go up 1 each round, or double each round, etc.
>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 hidden dice have
>>>>> been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its gone around to everyone else,
>>>>> everyone reveals their dice and the highest combination wins.
>>>>>
>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to call bluff,
>>>>> we kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent while we were playing the
>>>>> actual game.  I think pirate dice might not need calling a bluff at all,
>>>>> really when playing through just be ante'ing up and continuing on you're
>>>>> essentially "calling their bluff"  - just like regular poker a bluffer can
>>>>> keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after that the proof is in the
>>>>> pudding.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would work anyhow.
>>>>>  One way I was thinking was at any time, a person can call "bluff" on the
>>>>> previous person's claim instead of claiming for their round, they still 
>>>>> have
>>>>> to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.  Once bluff is called, the accused
>>>>> reveals his dice, if he was lying, he forfeits and pays a liars
>>>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante.  Likewise, if the accused was telling
>>>>> the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a tattler's fee 
>>>>> equivalent
>>>>> to the round's ante.  my problem with any of these is it enables a really
>>>>> easy kingmaker for people working together, but i am definitely all ears 
>>>>> if
>>>>> anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each round. be
>>>>>> affected by the blinds? Do you still want a large and small blinds?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and see what you
>>>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and then the next
>>>>>>>> 3 dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it,
>>>>>>>>>> i wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and 
>>>>>>>>>> bluff them
>>>>>>>>>> out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as 
>>>>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out 
>>>>>>>>>> you have
>>>>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them 
>>>>>>>>>> out?  Just
>>>>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have progressively
>>>>>>>>> higher combinations of dice, basically what you said is exactly right 
>>>>>>>>> - if
>>>>>>>>> you want to stay in you have to have or claim to have a better 
>>>>>>>>> combination
>>>>>>>>> of dice than the person before you,  so essentially you're betting 
>>>>>>>>> more and
>>>>>>>>> trying to bluff them out with every turn.  Raising and making bets is
>>>>>>>>> redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and i'm pretty
>>>>>>>>> sure we didn't bet anything when we played, we had a point system 
>>>>>>>>> where if
>>>>>>>>> you won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if you got called for 
>>>>>>>>> bluffing
>>>>>>>>> you lost 3 points, etc.  i don't really remember though... but i dont 
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> we bet...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round, its simple
>>>>>>>>> and easy while still keeping a high risk/reward for players who 
>>>>>>>>> continue
>>>>>>>>> playing - I am, of course, open to other ideas though!  I was just 
>>>>>>>>> working
>>>>>>>>> through playing pirate dice in my head to make the UI and i realized 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> betting, etc. overly complicates when you're essentially 
>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing
>>>>>>>>> anyways whenever you claim you have a better hand on your turn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had forgotten that
>>>>>>>>>>> aspect of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played
>>>>>>>>>>> it, i wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and 
>>>>>>>>>>> bluff
>>>>>>>>>>> them out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say 
>>>>>>>>>>> something as
>>>>>>>>>>> high or higher than one the last person said so that to bluff 
>>>>>>>>>>> someone out
>>>>>>>>>>> you have to basically say you have something higher than them to 
>>>>>>>>>>> push them
>>>>>>>>>>> out?  Just tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list the players in
>>>>>>>>>>> the room (since there may be more players than are sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to work out some
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kinks in the game flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from a multiplayer
>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective and I have a problem w/ the standard raise/call 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> format of poker
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in relevance to this game.  Basically the gameplay comes from 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> divulging the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> type and combination of dice you have, and since you tell 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have (or what you're pretending to have) every turn, betting 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the conventional way.  Basically I was thinking that rather than 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> escalating
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bets manually as players, I think there should be an "ante" 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have the choice of either 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> folding out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game or putting in a pre-defined ante, telling everyone what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or are pretending to have) that either beats, or matches the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>> player, or calling the bluff of the previous player.  I realize 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> slight deviation from the current design but I think it will 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> function much
>>>>>>>>>>>>> more cleanly and it makes more sense when put into a game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Basically we can have multiple stakes, so there can be a high 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>> where its 10 gold a round, or a low stakes game where it's 1 gold 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. or perhaps the amount of ante to stay in per round escalated 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (i.e. it's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> low in the first couple of rounds but when you get into the 5th 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or 6th round
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the stakes get higher making it a riskier thing (and thus more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> fun!) to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue or bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a bit of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> omission when Alan and I were trying to remember how we played 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the game,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there was some publicly displayed amount of dice, either dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 3 dice are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to judge whether the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds.  The game was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice game on pirates 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure having that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable.  Sorry it is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of me but what i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> this:   we could either have 3 dice that are shared amongst all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> players
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once everyone ante's up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are rolled.  Now the players roll 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their first 2
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice.  Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a 4 in his 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> personal hidden
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, and claims he has a pair of 3's.  The rest of the players 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can see all
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he needed to do was roll one 3 himself in order to get that pair 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 3's so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> he is probably not bluffing.  The game escalates from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every players
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first 3 dice are visible to all players, and all subsequence dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls are
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games is figuring
>>>>>>>>>>>>> out the odds, trying to get lucky on dice rolls and trying to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess if other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people are bluffing.  Part of all three of those things is giving 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hints to try to guess at what the other person REALLY has.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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