[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:38:21 -0700

i would only consider it if i could use that money for anything in game,
but even then it wouldnt be too hard for someone to make a program that just
edited ram and gave themselves a ton of money (then they publish that
program publicly and lots of people have it)

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:33 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> i mean we can definitely do it but would you pay real life money for in
> game money that you can earn yourself if you can't spend that in-game money
> on anything?  that is a legit question, im not shooting the idea down, im
> just saying is it worth our effort of setting it up? what will be their
> motivation to buy?
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope.  I just
>> meant a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc.  Sorry for
>> the tangent.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible idea, i
>>> was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay real life money
>>> for in game money.
>>>
>>> man, its rough.  obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell no"
>>> to a pay real $ for in game money system.  its my opinion that people ebay
>>> ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a hard time
>>> spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could only think
>>> of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill monsters for a
>>> month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword or i could
>>> sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who had $$$ to
>>> spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the economy.
>>> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who want
>>> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork over $$$
>>> to cheat the system.
>>>
>>> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the game
>>> a tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way, where
>>> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or like
>>> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or maybe if
>>> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool with
>>>> charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>>>
>>>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice money?
>>>>
>>>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able to
>>>> cash out in game money for real life money is a bad move.  it would take
>>>> sooo much work to get the security right and like get some kind of payment
>>>> gateway working etc.  Like you said it would make us a gambling website, 
>>>> and
>>>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the scope of
>>>> what we are trying to do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for
>>>>> ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool
>>>>>>> with charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  we could even make 
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest and
>>>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless they
>>>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously would 
>>>>>>> make
>>>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand
>>>>>>> for gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> money that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle 
>>>>>>> translates
>>>>>>> here quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and paying
>>>>>>>> for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The player
>>>>>>>> should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not everyone 
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame 
>>>>>>>> variety I
>>>>>>>> think another way to earn money could be allowing the players to spend 
>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>> money and save time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or
>>>>>>>> an additional character.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where
>>>>>>>>> you have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money
>>>>>>>>> this way yeah (:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag
>>>>>>>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other 
>>>>>>>>>>> players who buy
>>>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the game
>>>>>>>>>>>> will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on
>>>>>>>>>>>> games. I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of adult 
>>>>>>>>>>>> players.
>>>>>>>>>>>> There are plenty of people out there who would rather spend a few 
>>>>>>>>>>>> bucks in
>>>>>>>>>>>> real life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why 
>>>>>>>>>>>> allow both?
>>>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will be 
>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money
>>>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuff about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many rounds of betting there are cause i am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumb right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker where it creates a side pot for people to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue betting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person that is out of money would just win the main pot 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if he wins, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second place person would get the side pot... but that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.  I would actually say we should just make it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicked from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold and there's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> medium and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game.  We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> area that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free.  I was thinking it could be like, you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money?  IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game and call you would need to state that you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a greater
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than or equal hand than the person who called before you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to go without for now. I could see it potentially 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working in a 2v2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proceed so i figured
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'd better talk it out first.  I think you have the right 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idea but here's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice.  (I think these amounts may change when we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play test for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's combination, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fold out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game up a pre-decided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment.  For example it could go up 1 each round, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double each round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its gone around to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highest combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infrequent while we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were playing the actual game.  I think pirate dice might 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not need calling a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff at all, really when playing through just be 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante'ing up and continuing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on you're essentially "calling their bluff"  - just like 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after that the proof
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work anyhow.  One way I was thinking was at any time, a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person can call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claiming for their round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once bluff is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was lying, he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forfeits and pays
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante.  Likewise, if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the accused was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a tattler's fee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equivalent to the round's ante.  my problem with any of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these is it enables
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a really easy kingmaker for people working together, but 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i am definitely all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ears if anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still want a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could.  If you can't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if you want 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my head 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, basically 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you,  so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything when we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played, we had a point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system where if you won you got 2 points, folded you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  i don't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, its simple and easy while still keeping a high 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk/reward for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players who continue playing - I am, of course, open 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to other ideas though!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was just working through playing pirate dice in my 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> head to make the UI and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i realized that betting, etc. overly complicates when 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could.  If you can't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bet, you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my head 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players in the room (since there may be more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players than are sitting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out some kinks in the game flow before i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a multiplayer perspective and I have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> problem w/ the standard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise/call format of poker in relevance to this 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game.  Basically the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gameplay comes from divulging the type and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination of dice you have, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since you tell everyone what you have (or what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn, betting doesn't work in the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional way.  Basically I was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking that rather than escalating the bets 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manually as players, I think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there should be an "ante" to stay in whenever it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is your turn, so you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the choice of either folding out of the game or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting in a pre-defined
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ante, telling everyone what you have (or are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretending to have) that either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> beats, or matches the previous player, or calling 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bluff of the previous
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> player.  I realize this is a slight deviation 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the current design but I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think it will function much more cleanly and it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes more sense when put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a game perspective.  Basically we can have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiple stakes, so there
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can be a high stakes game where its 10 gold a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round, or a low stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where it's 1 gold per round, etc. or perhaps the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount of ante to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> per round escalated (i.e. it's low in the first 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of rounds but when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you get into the 5th or 6th round the stakes get 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> higher making it a riskier
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thing (and thus more fun!) to continue or bluff 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bit of omission when Alan and I were trying to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember how we played the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game, there was some publicly displayed amount of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, either dice that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 dice are displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judge whether the person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  The game was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game on pirates of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having that visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry it is hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of me but what i mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this:   we could either have 3 dice that are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared amongst all players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are rolled.  Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice.  Player one sees 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pair of 3's.  The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll one 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not bluffing.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every players first 3 dice are visible to all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, and all subsequence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games is figuring out the odds, trying to get 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lucky on dice rolls and trying
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to guess if other people are bluffing.  Part of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Having the visible dice is that tantalizing 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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