[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:44:45 -0700

what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money?  IE when you are
"all in"?

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as well.
> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games are the most
> simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we would.
> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first round starts
> with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice
> 2) remove raising
> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay in the game and
> call you would need to state that you have a greater than or equal hand than
> the person who called before you right?
> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best to go without
> for now. I could see it potentially working in a 2v2 version of pirate dice.
> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the rest of the
>> areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so i figured i'd better talk it
>> out first.  I think you have the right idea but here's a way i was thinking
>> it could work:
>> 1) each player ante's up.
>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1 hidden dice.  (I
>> think these amounts may change when we play test for balance, but this is an
>> ok starting point)
>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and and claims a
>> combination to open the match
>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either put 1 coin in
>> and claim to top the previous person's combination, or fold out
>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd hidden dice is rolled,
>> also the amount to stay in the game up a pre-decided increment.  For example
>> it could go up 1 each round, or double each round, etc.
>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 hidden dice have been
>> rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its gone around to everyone else, everyone
>> reveals their dice and the highest combination wins.
>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to call bluff, we
>> kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent while we were playing the
>> actual game.  I think pirate dice might not need calling a bluff at all,
>> really when playing through just be ante'ing up and continuing on you're
>> essentially "calling their bluff"  - just like regular poker a bluffer can
>> keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after that the proof is in the
>> pudding.
>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would work anyhow.  One
>> way I was thinking was at any time, a person can call "bluff" on the
>> previous person's claim instead of claiming for their round, they still have
>> to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.  Once bluff is called, the accused
>> reveals his dice, if he was lying, he forfeits and pays a liars
>> fee equivalent to the round's ante.  Likewise, if the accused was telling
>> the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a tattler's fee equivalent
>> to the round's ante.  my problem with any of these is it enables a really
>> easy kingmaker for people working together, but i am definitely all ears if
>> anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each round. be affected
>>> by the blinds? Do you still want a large and small blinds?
>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and see what you
>>>>> think.
>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and then the next 3
>>>>> dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it, i
>>>>>>> wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and bluff them
>>>>>>> out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as 
>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out you 
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them out?  
>>>>>>> Just
>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have progressively higher
>>>>>> combinations of dice, basically what you said is exactly right - if you 
>>>>>> want
>>>>>> to stay in you have to have or claim to have a better combination of dice
>>>>>> than the person before you,  so essentially you're betting more and 
>>>>>> trying
>>>>>> to bluff them out with every turn.  Raising and making bets is redundant 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> the premise.
>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and i'm pretty sure
>>>>>> we didn't bet anything when we played, we had a point system where if you
>>>>>> won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if you got called for bluffing 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> lost 3 points, etc.  i don't really remember though... but i dont think 
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> bet...
>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round, its simple and
>>>>>> easy while still keeping a high risk/reward for players who continue 
>>>>>> playing
>>>>>> - I am, of course, open to other ideas though!  I was just working 
>>>>>> through
>>>>>> playing pirate dice in my head to make the UI and i realized that 
>>>>>> betting,
>>>>>> etc. overly complicates when you're essentially betting/bluffing anyways
>>>>>> whenever you claim you have a better hand on your turn
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had forgotten that aspect
>>>>>>>> of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it, i
>>>>>>>> wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and bluff 
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>> out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as 
>>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out you 
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them out? 
>>>>>>>>  Just
>>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list the players in the
>>>>>>>> room (since there may be more players than are sitting down).
>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to work out some
>>>>>>>>>> kinks in the game flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from a multiplayer
>>>>>>>>>> perspective and I have a problem w/ the standard raise/call format 
>>>>>>>>>> of poker
>>>>>>>>>> in relevance to this game.  Basically the gameplay comes from 
>>>>>>>>>> divulging the
>>>>>>>>>> type and combination of dice you have, and since you tell everyone 
>>>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>>>> have (or what you're pretending to have) every turn, betting doesn't 
>>>>>>>>>> work in
>>>>>>>>>> the conventional way.  Basically I was thinking that rather than 
>>>>>>>>>> escalating
>>>>>>>>>> the bets manually as players, I think there should be an "ante" to 
>>>>>>>>>> stay in
>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have the choice of either folding 
>>>>>>>>>> out of
>>>>>>>>>> the game or putting in a pre-defined ante, telling everyone what you 
>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>> (or are pretending to have) that either beats, or matches the 
>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>> player, or calling the bluff of the previous player.  I realize this 
>>>>>>>>>> is a
>>>>>>>>>> slight deviation from the current design but I think it will 
>>>>>>>>>> function much
>>>>>>>>>> more cleanly and it makes more sense when put into a game 
>>>>>>>>>> perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>  Basically we can have multiple stakes, so there can be a high 
>>>>>>>>>> stakes game
>>>>>>>>>> where its 10 gold a round, or a low stakes game where it's 1 gold 
>>>>>>>>>> per round,
>>>>>>>>>> etc. or perhaps the amount of ante to stay in per round escalated 
>>>>>>>>>> (i.e. it's
>>>>>>>>>> low in the first couple of rounds but when you get into the 5th or 
>>>>>>>>>> 6th round
>>>>>>>>>> the stakes get higher making it a riskier thing (and thus more fun!) 
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> continue or bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a bit of omission
>>>>>>>>>> when Alan and I were trying to remember how we played the game, 
>>>>>>>>>> there was
>>>>>>>>>> some publicly displayed amount of dice, either dice that are shared 
>>>>>>>>>> by all
>>>>>>>>>> players or maybe each players first 3 dice are displayed, this will 
>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>> something for other players to try to judge whether the person is 
>>>>>>>>>> bluffing
>>>>>>>>>> or not and to try to calculate the odds.  The game was originally 
>>>>>>>>>> conceived
>>>>>>>>>> of as a combination of the liar's dice game on pirates of the 
>>>>>>>>>> carribean and
>>>>>>>>>> texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure having that visible dice was part 
>>>>>>>>>> of what
>>>>>>>>>> made the game fun and playable.  Sorry it is hard to explain via 
>>>>>>>>>> e-mail
>>>>>>>>>> without having dice in front of me but what i mean is this:   we 
>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>> either have 3 dice that are shared amongst all players (like the 
>>>>>>>>>> flop in
>>>>>>>>>> texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once everyone ante's up -
>>>>>>>>>> let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are rolled.  Now the players roll their 
>>>>>>>>>> first 2
>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice.  Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a 4 in his personal 
>>>>>>>>>> hidden
>>>>>>>>>> dice, and claims he has a pair of 3's.  The rest of the players can 
>>>>>>>>>> see all
>>>>>>>>>> he needed to do was roll one 3 himself in order to get that pair of 
>>>>>>>>>> 3's so
>>>>>>>>>> he is probably not bluffing.  The game escalates from there.
>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every players first 3
>>>>>>>>>> dice are visible to all players, and all subsequence dice rolls are 
>>>>>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games is figuring out
>>>>>>>>>> the odds, trying to get lucky on dice rolls and trying to guess if 
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> people are bluffing.  Part of all three of those things is giving 
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> hints to try to guess at what the other person REALLY has.  Having 
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?

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