[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:14:58 -0400

kent you have it exactly right i think.

alan - that is a good question... we could do it like regular poker where it
creates a side pot for people to continue betting and the person that is out
of money would just win the main pot if he wins, and the second place person
would get the side pot... but that seems clumsy to me.  I would actually say
we should just make it that if someone doesn't have enough money to buy in
for an entire game, they are disqualified and kicked from the table until
they have enough.


Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter the pirate dice
area, you start off with an amount of gold and there's 3 games of pirate
dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium and then a high stakes game.
We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who offers to loan small amounts of
money at high interest, and what i was thinking was if you run out of $$$
completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area that can earn you cash that
is free.  I was thinking it could be like, you could work as a bartender and
the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could make a mini bar tending game,
or you have to go in the backroom and catch all the rats and they give you a
fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is ever stuck and completely unable
to play...

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money?  IE when you
> are "all in"?
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as well.
>>
>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games are the most
>> simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>
>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we would.
>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first round starts
>> with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice
>> 2) remove raising
>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>
>> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay in the game
>> and call you would need to state that you have a greater than or equal hand
>> than the person who called before you right?
>>
>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best to go without
>> for now. I could see it potentially working in a 2v2 version of pirate dice.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the rest of the
>>> areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so i figured i'd better talk it
>>> out first.  I think you have the right idea but here's a way i was thinking
>>> it could work:
>>>
>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1 hidden dice.  (I
>>> think these amounts may change when we play test for balance, but this is an
>>> ok starting point)
>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and and claims a
>>> combination to open the match
>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either put 1 coin in
>>> and claim to top the previous person's combination, or fold out
>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd hidden dice is
>>> rolled, also the amount to stay in the game up a pre-decided increment.  For
>>> example it could go up 1 each round, or double each round, etc.
>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 hidden dice have
>>> been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its gone around to everyone else,
>>> everyone reveals their dice and the highest combination wins.
>>>
>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to call bluff, we
>>> kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent while we were playing the
>>> actual game.  I think pirate dice might not need calling a bluff at all,
>>> really when playing through just be ante'ing up and continuing on you're
>>> essentially "calling their bluff"  - just like regular poker a bluffer can
>>> keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after that the proof is in the
>>> pudding.
>>>
>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would work anyhow.  One
>>> way I was thinking was at any time, a person can call "bluff" on the
>>> previous person's claim instead of claiming for their round, they still have
>>> to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.  Once bluff is called, the accused
>>> reveals his dice, if he was lying, he forfeits and pays a liars
>>> fee equivalent to the round's ante.  Likewise, if the accused was telling
>>> the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a tattler's fee equivalent
>>> to the round's ante.  my problem with any of these is it enables a really
>>> easy kingmaker for people working together, but i am definitely all ears if
>>> anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each round. be affected
>>>> by the blinds? Do you still want a large and small blinds?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and see what you
>>>>>> think.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and then the next 3
>>>>>> dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it, i
>>>>>>>> wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and bluff 
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>> out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as 
>>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out you 
>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them out? 
>>>>>>>>  Just
>>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have progressively higher
>>>>>>> combinations of dice, basically what you said is exactly right - if you 
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to stay in you have to have or claim to have a better combination of 
>>>>>>> dice
>>>>>>> than the person before you,  so essentially you're betting more and 
>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>> to bluff them out with every turn.  Raising and making bets is 
>>>>>>> redundant to
>>>>>>> the premise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and i'm pretty
>>>>>>> sure we didn't bet anything when we played, we had a point system where 
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if you got called for 
>>>>>>> bluffing
>>>>>>> you lost 3 points, etc.  i don't really remember though... but i dont 
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> we bet...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round, its simple and
>>>>>>> easy while still keeping a high risk/reward for players who continue 
>>>>>>> playing
>>>>>>> - I am, of course, open to other ideas though!  I was just working 
>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>> playing pirate dice in my head to make the UI and i realized that 
>>>>>>> betting,
>>>>>>> etc. overly complicates when you're essentially betting/bluffing anyways
>>>>>>> whenever you claim you have a better hand on your turn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had forgotten that aspect
>>>>>>>>> of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we played it,
>>>>>>>>> i wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't raise someones and bluff 
>>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>>> out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you have to say something as 
>>>>>>>>> high or
>>>>>>>>> higher than one the last person said so that to bluff someone out you 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to basically say you have something higher than them to push them 
>>>>>>>>> out?  Just
>>>>>>>>> tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list the players in
>>>>>>>>> the room (since there may be more players than are sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes 
>>>>>>>>>> <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to work out some
>>>>>>>>>>> kinks in the game flow before i finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from a multiplayer
>>>>>>>>>>> perspective and I have a problem w/ the standard raise/call format 
>>>>>>>>>>> of poker
>>>>>>>>>>> in relevance to this game.  Basically the gameplay comes from 
>>>>>>>>>>> divulging the
>>>>>>>>>>> type and combination of dice you have, and since you tell everyone 
>>>>>>>>>>> what you
>>>>>>>>>>> have (or what you're pretending to have) every turn, betting 
>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work in
>>>>>>>>>>> the conventional way.  Basically I was thinking that rather than 
>>>>>>>>>>> escalating
>>>>>>>>>>> the bets manually as players, I think there should be an "ante" to 
>>>>>>>>>>> stay in
>>>>>>>>>>> whenever it is your turn, so you have the choice of either folding 
>>>>>>>>>>> out of
>>>>>>>>>>> the game or putting in a pre-defined ante, telling everyone what 
>>>>>>>>>>> you have
>>>>>>>>>>> (or are pretending to have) that either beats, or matches the 
>>>>>>>>>>> previous
>>>>>>>>>>> player, or calling the bluff of the previous player.  I realize 
>>>>>>>>>>> this is a
>>>>>>>>>>> slight deviation from the current design but I think it will 
>>>>>>>>>>> function much
>>>>>>>>>>> more cleanly and it makes more sense when put into a game 
>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>  Basically we can have multiple stakes, so there can be a high 
>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game
>>>>>>>>>>> where its 10 gold a round, or a low stakes game where it's 1 gold 
>>>>>>>>>>> per round,
>>>>>>>>>>> etc. or perhaps the amount of ante to stay in per round escalated 
>>>>>>>>>>> (i.e. it's
>>>>>>>>>>> low in the first couple of rounds but when you get into the 5th or 
>>>>>>>>>>> 6th round
>>>>>>>>>>> the stakes get higher making it a riskier thing (and thus more 
>>>>>>>>>>> fun!) to
>>>>>>>>>>> continue or bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a bit of omission
>>>>>>>>>>> when Alan and I were trying to remember how we played the game, 
>>>>>>>>>>> there was
>>>>>>>>>>> some publicly displayed amount of dice, either dice that are shared 
>>>>>>>>>>> by all
>>>>>>>>>>> players or maybe each players first 3 dice are displayed, this will 
>>>>>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>>>>>> something for other players to try to judge whether the person is 
>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing
>>>>>>>>>>> or not and to try to calculate the odds.  The game was originally 
>>>>>>>>>>> conceived
>>>>>>>>>>> of as a combination of the liar's dice game on pirates of the 
>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and
>>>>>>>>>>> texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure having that visible dice was 
>>>>>>>>>>> part of what
>>>>>>>>>>> made the game fun and playable.  Sorry it is hard to explain via 
>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail
>>>>>>>>>>> without having dice in front of me but what i mean is this:   we 
>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>> either have 3 dice that are shared amongst all players (like the 
>>>>>>>>>>> flop in
>>>>>>>>>>> texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once everyone ante's up -
>>>>>>>>>>> let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are rolled.  Now the players roll their 
>>>>>>>>>>> first 2
>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice.  Player one sees he rolled a 3 and a 4 in his personal 
>>>>>>>>>>> hidden
>>>>>>>>>>> dice, and claims he has a pair of 3's.  The rest of the players can 
>>>>>>>>>>> see all
>>>>>>>>>>> he needed to do was roll one 3 himself in order to get that pair of 
>>>>>>>>>>> 3's so
>>>>>>>>>>> he is probably not bluffing.  The game escalates from there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every players first
>>>>>>>>>>> 3 dice are visible to all players, and all subsequence dice rolls 
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games is figuring out
>>>>>>>>>>> the odds, trying to get lucky on dice rolls and trying to guess if 
>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> people are bluffing.  Part of all three of those things is giving 
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> hints to try to guess at what the other person REALLY has.  Having 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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