[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI
- From: Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:22:26 -0700
from a technical pov i dont think it'd be too big a deal to sell people in
game money
but for us to allow it to go the other way too is when it would make a lot
of problems for us
so i'm down with #1 but not with #2 for what its worth
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:10 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> right... but farmville has something you can spend that money on to make
> that money valuable... like in the future when we have more games and items
> you can purchase for your character, etc, people will be more apt to
> purchase gold, but right now i can't see it being a viable option...
> definitely soemthing to look forward to in the future.
>
> 20,000 a month? lol people are such rubes
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for
>> ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool with
>>>> charging real life cash for pirate dice money. we could even make an
>>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest and
>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless they
>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously would
>>>> make
>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>
>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand for
>>>> gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with that
>>>> money
>>>> that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle translates here
>>>> quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and paying for
>>>>> stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The player
>>>>> should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not everyone will
>>>>> want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame variety I
>>>>> think another way to earn money could be allowing the players to spend
>>>>> real
>>>>> money and save time.
>>>>>
>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or an
>>>>> additional character.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where you
>>>>>> have to pay for content.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money this
>>>>>> way yeah (:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz
>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag
>>>>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other players
>>>>>>>> who buy
>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen
>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the game
>>>>>>>>> will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on games. I
>>>>>>>>> think it opens of your audience to a wider range of adult players.
>>>>>>>>> There are
>>>>>>>>> plenty of people out there who would rather spend a few bucks in real
>>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>>> than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why allow both?
>>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>>> enough time has passed on the game servers there will be enough money
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some stuff
>>>>>>>>>>> about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies. :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many rounds of betting there are cause i am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumb right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker where it creates a side pot for people to continue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person that is out of money would just win the main pot if he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wins, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second place person would get the side pot... but that seems
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clumsy to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would actually say we should just make it that if someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and kicked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount of gold and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game. We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free. I was thinking it could be like, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the game and call you would need to state that you have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greater than or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal hand than the person who called before you right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to go without for now. I could see it potentially working in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a 2v2 version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i figured i'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better talk it out first. I think you have the right idea
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but here's a way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice. (I think these amounts may change when we play
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous person's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination, or fold
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a 2nd hidden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the game up a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-decided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment. For example it could go up 1 each round, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double each round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gone around to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the highest
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while we were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> playing the actual game. I think pirate dice might not need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling a bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at all, really when playing through just be ante'ing up and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're essentially "calling their bluff" - just like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the proof
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work anyhow. One way I was thinking was at any time, a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person can call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of claiming
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once bluff is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was lying, he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forfeits and pays
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante. Likewise, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the accused was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tattler's fee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equivalent to the round's ante. my problem with any of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these is it enables
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a really easy kingmaker for people working together, but i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am definitely all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ears if anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still want a large
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we played it, i wish i could. If you can't bet, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't raise someones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bluff them out. Is it that if you want to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something as high or higher than one the last person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said so that to bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone out you have to basically say you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than them to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head around it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, basically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn. Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything when we played,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we had a point system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where if you won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you got called for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing you lost 3 points, etc. i don't really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember though... but i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its simple and easy while still keeping a high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk/reward for players who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue playing - I am, of course, open to other ideas
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though! I was just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working through playing pirate dice in my head to make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the UI and i realized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that betting, etc. overly complicates when you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we played it, i wish i could. If you can't bet, you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't raise someones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bluff them out. Is it that if you want to stay in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something as high or higher than one the last person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said so that to bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone out you have to basically say you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than them to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push them out? Just tryin to wrap my head around it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players in the room (since there may be more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players than are sitting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out some kinks in the game flow before i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a multiplayer perspective and I have a problem w/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the standard raise/call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> format of poker in relevance to this game.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically the gameplay comes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from divulging the type and combination of dice you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have, and since you tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or what you're pretending to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have) every turn,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting doesn't work in the conventional way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically I was thinking that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than escalating the bets manually as players,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an "ante" to stay in whenever it is your turn, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have the choice of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either folding out of the game or putting in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-defined ante, telling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or are pretending to have)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that either beats, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matches the previous player, or calling the bluff of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous player. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realize this is a slight deviation from the current
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design but I think it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will function much more cleanly and it makes more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense when put into a game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective. Basically we can have multiple stakes,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so there can be a high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game where its 10 gold a round, or a low
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game where it's 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold per round, etc. or perhaps the amount of ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in per round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escalated (i.e. it's low in the first couple of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds but when you get into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 5th or 6th round the stakes get higher making it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a riskier thing (and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus more fun!) to continue or bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit of omission when Alan and I were trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember how we played the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game, there was some publicly displayed amount of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, either dice that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice are displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judge whether the person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game on pirates of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having that visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry it is hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me but what i mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this: we could either have 3 dice that are shared
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amongst all players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled. Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice. Player one sees he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a pair
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 3's. The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll one 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not bluffing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players first 3 dice are visible to all players, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all subsequence dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is figuring out the odds, trying to get lucky on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls and trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess if other people are bluffing. Part of all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having the visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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