[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:10:52 -0400

right... but farmville has something you can spend that money on to make
that money valuable... like in the future when we have more games and items
you can purchase for your character, etc, people will be more apt to
purchase gold, but right now i can't see it being a viable option...
definitely soemthing to look forward to in the future.

20,000 a month? lol people are such rubes

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:56 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for
> ingame money to buy tractors and such.
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool with
>>> charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  we could even make an
>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest and
>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless they
>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously would make
>>> us a gambling site :P
>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand for
>>> gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with that money
>>> that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle translates here
>>> quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and paying for
>>>> stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The player
>>>> should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not everyone will
>>>> want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame variety I
>>>> think another way to earn money could be allowing the players to spend real
>>>> money and save time.
>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or an
>>>> additional character.
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where you
>>>>> have to pay for content.
>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money this
>>>>> way yeah (:
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag
>>>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other players 
>>>>>>> who buy
>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen 
>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the game will
>>>>>>>> have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on games. I
>>>>>>>> think it opens of your audience to a wider range of adult players. 
>>>>>>>> There are
>>>>>>>> plenty of people out there who would rather spend a few bucks in real 
>>>>>>>> life
>>>>>>>> than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why allow both? 
>>>>>>>> After
>>>>>>>> enough time has passed on the game servers there will be enough money 
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance.
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe 
>>>>>>>>> <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some stuff
>>>>>>>>>> about the game
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play, so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many rounds of betting there are cause i am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumb right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like regular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker where it creates a side pot for people to continue betting 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person that is out of money would just win the main pot if he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wins, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> second place person would get the side pot... but that seems 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clumsy to me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would actually say we should just make it that if someone 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are disqualified 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and kicked
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount of gold and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game.  We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was thinking 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free.  I was thinking it could be like, you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could make 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is ever 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of money?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player, first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to stay
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the game and call you would need to state that you have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> greater than or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equal hand than the person who called before you right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to go without for now. I could see it potentially working in a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2v2 version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figured i'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better talk it out first.  I think you have the right idea 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but here's a way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice.  (I think these amounts may change when we play 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous person's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination, or fold
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd hidden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the game up a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-decided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment.  For example it could go up 1 each round, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double each round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3 hidden
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its gone 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around to everyone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> else, everyone reveals their dice and the highest combination 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it was infrequent 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while we were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> playing the actual game.  I think pirate dice might not need 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calling a bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at all, really when playing through just be ante'ing up and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're essentially "calling their bluff"  - just like regular 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> poker a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, after 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the proof
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work anyhow.  One way I was thinking was at any time, a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person can call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of claiming 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.  Once 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was lying, he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forfeits and pays
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante.  Likewise, if the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accused was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tattler's fee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equivalent to the round's ante.  my problem with any of these 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it enables
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a really easy kingmaker for people working together, but i am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ears if anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still want a large 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played it, i wish i could.  If you can't bet, you can't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> raise someones and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff them out.  Is it that if you want to stay in you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to say something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as high or higher than one the last person said so that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to bluff someone out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to basically say you have something higher than 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out?  Just tryin to wrap my head around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, basically what 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before you,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything when we played, we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had a point system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where if you won you got 2 points, folded you got 0, if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you got called for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  i don't really remember 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its simple and easy while still keeping a high 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk/reward for players who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue playing - I am, of course, open to other ideas 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though!  I was just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working through playing pirate dice in my head to make 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the UI and i realized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that betting, etc. overly complicates when you're 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we played it, i wish i could.  If you can't bet, you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't raise someones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bluff them out.  Is it that if you want to stay in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something as high or higher than one the last person 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said so that to bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone out you have to basically say you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than them to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my head around it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players in the room (since there may be more players 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than are sitting down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out some kinks in the game flow before i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> multiplayer perspective and I have a problem w/ the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> standard raise/call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> format of poker in relevance to this game.  Basically 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the gameplay comes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from divulging the type and combination of dice you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have, and since you tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or what you're pretending to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have) every turn,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting doesn't work in the conventional way.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically I was thinking that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than escalating the bets manually as players, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an "ante" to stay in whenever it is your turn, so you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the choice of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either folding out of the game or putting in a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-defined ante, telling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or are pretending to have) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that either beats, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matches the previous player, or calling the bluff of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the previous player.  I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realize this is a slight deviation from the current 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design but I think it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will function much more cleanly and it makes more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense when put into a game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.  Basically we can have multiple stakes, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so there can be a high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game where its 10 gold a round, or a low 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game where it's 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold per round, etc. or perhaps the amount of ante to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in per round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escalated (i.e. it's low in the first couple of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds but when you get into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 5th or 6th round the stakes get higher making it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a riskier thing (and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus more fun!) to continue or bluff or call a bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit of omission when Alan and I were trying to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember how we played the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game, there was some publicly displayed amount of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, either dice that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice are displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to judge 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether the person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on pirates of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having that visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry it is hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of me 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but what i mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this:   we could either have 3 dice that are shared 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amongst all players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled.  Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice.  Player one sees he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a pair of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3's.  The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll one 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not bluffing.  The 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players first 3 dice are visible to all players, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all subsequence dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figuring out the odds, trying to get lucky on dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolls and trying to guess
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if other people are bluffing.  Part of all three of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those things is giving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people hints to try to guess at what the other person 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> REALLY has.  Having
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the visible dice is that tantalizing hint. :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?

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