[project1dev] Re: new pirate dice UI

  • From: Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: project1dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:32:03 -0400

Those are all nice features, but it seems pretty out of scope.  I just meant
a minor suggestion of like, "$5 buys you 100 gold", etc.  Sorry for the
tangent.

On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:24 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> oh yeah, cashing in game money for real life money is a terrible idea, i
> was just saying thats the only reason I personally would pay real life money
> for in game money.
>
> man, its rough.  obviously my gamer instincts are telling me, "hell no" to
> a pay real $ for in game money system.  its my opinion that people ebay
> ruined gemstone, it ruined it for me as a player because i had a hard time
> spending gold i earned in game on in game stuff because i could only think
> of it translated to real life money - like lets say i kill monsters for a
> month and earn 4 million gold, i think hey i'd like a new sword or i could
> sell it on ebay for 60 bucks... and conversely, the people who had $$$ to
> spend bought all the money and all the nice items and ruined the economy.
> Basically it creates an in-balance between the straight up gamers who want
> to earn everything the right way, and rich assholes who will fork over $$$
> to cheat the system.
>
> I am slightly happier with maybe making the multiplayer part of the game a
> tiered subscription system if we want to monetize it that way, where
> different levels cost different monthly fees and unlock new areas or like
> VIP sections of existing games where maybe the odds are easier or maybe if
> you're a paid gamer, you get a daily allowance of gold or something...
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 4:10 PM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> "as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool with
>> charging real life cash for pirate dice money"
>>
>> What if it was for "in game money", not specifically pirate dice money?
>>
>> And im sure you are on the same page as me but i think being able to cash
>> out in game money for real life money is a bad move.  it would take sooo
>> much work to get the security right and like get some kind of payment
>> gateway working etc.  Like you said it would make us a gambling website, and
>> doin that takes a lot of work for something really outside of the scope of
>> what we are trying to do.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Nick Klotz <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>
>>> farmville makes over $20,000 a month on people spending REAL cash for
>>> ingame money to buy tractors and such.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 3:51 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Imagine that, Pirate Dice gambling for real money
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:47 PM, eric drewes <figarus@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> as long as there's an in game way to earn money in game, i am cool with
>>>>> charging real life cash for pirate dice money.  we could even make an
>>>>> exclusive VIP club for "paying" customers - but i have to be honest and
>>>>> say... i am not sure why people would pay for money in game unless they
>>>>> could convert that money back into IRL cash... and that obviously would 
>>>>> make
>>>>> us a gambling site :P
>>>>>
>>>>> gold in games like WoW is worth real life money because the demand for
>>>>> gold in the game is really high and there's a lot you can do with that 
>>>>> money
>>>>> that gives it value... i just dont know if that principle translates here
>>>>> quite yet, but possibly in the future!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think there is a difference between paying for content and paying
>>>>>> for stuff that is available to everyone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If the player has to spend timea mini game to earn money. The player
>>>>>> should be able to have an alternative to earning money. Not everyone will
>>>>>> want to play that mini game. In addition to making more minigame variety 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think another way to earn money could be allowing the players to spend 
>>>>>> real
>>>>>> money and save time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, paying for content would be more like paying for a patch or an
>>>>>> additional character.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:47 AM, Alan Wolfe <alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well i was just bringin it up cause i know eric hates games where you
>>>>>>> have to pay for content.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This may be different though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If so, it would be nice to be able to make a lil stream of money this
>>>>>>> way yeah (:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 11:35 AM, Nick Klotz 
>>>>>>> <roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> VIP anyone?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 2:08 PM, Kent Petersen 
>>>>>>>> <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Another thought for allowing buyable money is that you can flag
>>>>>>>>> players who buy money and only allow them to play with other players 
>>>>>>>>> who buy
>>>>>>>>> money
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:58 AM, Kent Petersen <kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I like the newer ideas going into pirate dice. I think the game
>>>>>>>>>> will have better flow and be more of its own entity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I also like the idea of letting people spend real money on games.
>>>>>>>>>> I think it opens of your audience to a wider range of adult players. 
>>>>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>>>>> are plenty of people out there who would rather spend a few bucks in 
>>>>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>>>>> life than play a repetitive mini game to earn money. So why allow 
>>>>>>>>>> both?
>>>>>>>>>> After enough time has passed on the game servers there will be 
>>>>>>>>>> enough money
>>>>>>>>>> in circulation that it would not matter as much to game balance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:44 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a fan of generating money. :T
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> but, dunno how eric feels about that... it could ruin some stuff
>>>>>>>>>>>> about the game
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:36 AM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that would be a good way to generate some revenue :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:29 AM, Nick Klotz <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> roracsenshi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give people the option to buy gold with real monies.  :P
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 1:22 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That sounds like a good solution eric
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So if there are 3 private dice that means 3 rounds of play,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so you have to have 3x of ante? (or is it 4 rounds?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in any case you would have to have either 3x or 4x the ante
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (depending on how many rounds of betting there are cause i am 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dumb right now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lol) and if you don't you can't play?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, sounds great to me, good way to plug the hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kent you have it exactly right i think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan - that is a good question... we could do it like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker where it creates a side pot for people to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue betting and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person that is out of money would just win the main pot if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he wins, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the second place person would get the side pot... but that 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems clumsy to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me.  I would actually say we should just make it that if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have enough money to buy in for an entire game, they are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disqualified and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicked from the table until they have enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok so here's my view of how it should work - when you enter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the pirate dice area, you start off with an amount of gold and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> games of pirate dice going, 1 with a low ante, 1 with a medium 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and then a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high stakes game.  We could also have a "loan shark" NPC who 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> offers to loan
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> small amounts of money at high interest, and what i was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking was if you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> run out of $$$ completely, we have a 2nd mini game in the area 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that can earn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you cash that is free.  I was thinking it could be like, you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could work as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bartender and the drink buyer gives you a tip and we could 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a mini bar
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tending game, or you have to go in the backroom and catch all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rats and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they give you a fixed amount per rat... that way, no one is 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ever stuck and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> completely unable to play...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happens if the ante comes up and you are out of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> money?  IE when you are "all in"?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Interesting. I think this new method sounds pretty solid
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am all for simplifying the game. I think the best games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are the most simple. Easy to play, hard to master.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So to change the game from how it is to the new model we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) make 3 dice visible and 3 hiddden dice per player,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first round starts with 3 visible dice rolled and 1 hidden 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) remove raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) set an ante amount that is paid every round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If players still state what they have in their hand to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stay in the game and call you would need to state that you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have a greater
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than or equal hand than the person who called before you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point on bluffing mechanics it is probably best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to go without for now. I could see it potentially working in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a 2v2 version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of pirate dice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 7:38 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey now that we have it worked out i'll finish making the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rest of the areas you need, i wasn't sure how to proceed so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i figured i'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better talk it out first.  I think you have the right idea 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but here's a way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> i was thinking it could work:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) each player ante's up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) the 3 shared dice are rolled and each player rolls 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice.  (I think these amounts may change when we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> play test for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance, but this is an ok starting point)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3) the person to the left of the dealer puts in 1 coin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and and claims a combination to open the match
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4) it goes clockwise around the table, players can either
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> put 1 coin in and claim to top the previous person's 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination, or fold
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 5) once it gets back to the starting person, a  2nd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice is rolled, also the amount to stay in the game 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> up a pre-decided
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> increment.  For example it could go up 1 each round, or 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double each round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 6) it goes around until only one person is left or 3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hidden dice have been rolled, if 3 have been rolled and its 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gone around to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone else, everyone reveals their dice and the highest 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> combination wins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hey alan, I am thinking that even though we had a rule to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call bluff, we kinda stopped callign it or it was 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> infrequent while we were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> playing the actual game.  I think pirate dice might not 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> need calling a bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at all, really when playing through just be ante'ing up and 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continuing on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're essentially "calling their bluff"  - just like 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regular poker a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffer can keep bluffing all the way till the reveal, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after that the proof
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is in the pudding.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure how the mechanics for calling bluff would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work anyhow.  One way I was thinking was at any time, a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person can call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "bluff" on the previous person's claim instead of claiming 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for their round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they still have to pay the ante-in fee to call a bluff.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Once bluff is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called, the accused reveals his dice, if he was lying, he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forfeits and pays
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a liars fee equivalent to the round's ante.  Likewise, if 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the accused was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> telling the truth, he forfeits and the accuser has to pay a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tattler's fee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> equivalent to the round's ante.  my problem with any of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these is it enables
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a really easy kingmaker for people working together, but i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> am definitely all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ears if anyone has an idea how to make it work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How would the new way of raising, ante increases each
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> round. be affected by the blinds? Do you still want a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> large and small
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blinds?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where would you want the shared dice to be displayed?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Kent Petersen <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kentkmp@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UI screen looks nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think I am following you. I will make some mods and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> see what you think.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, by not folding you are saying you are raising?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Would you like the first 3 dice to roll as public and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then the next 3 dice to come out one turn at a time?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 5:04 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we played it, i wish i could.  If you can't bet, you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't raise someones
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bluff them out.  Is it that if you want to stay in 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something as high or higher than one the last person 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said so that to bluff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone out you have to basically say you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than them to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my head around it 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you raise and bluff people by claiming you have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> progressively higher combinations of dice, basically 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what you said is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly right - if you want to stay in you have to have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or claim to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better combination of dice than the person before you,  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're betting more and trying to bluff them out with 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every turn.  Raising
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and making bets is redundant to the premise.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan i was thinking about it and i talked to misty
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and i'm pretty sure we didn't bet anything when we 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> played, we had a point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system where if you won you got 2 points, folded you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> got 0, if you got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> called for bluffing you lost 3 points, etc.  i don't 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> really remember
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though... but i dont think we bet...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really like the idea of escalating antes per round,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its simple and easy while still keeping a high 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> risk/reward for players who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> continue playing - I am, of course, open to other ideas 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though!  I was just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working through playing pirate dice in my head to make 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the UI and i realized
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that betting, etc. overly complicates when you're 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> essentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting/bluffing anyways whenever you claim you have a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> better hand on your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oh and the UI looks nice btw!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alan Wolfe <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alan.wolfe@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that makes a lot of sense, and i had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forgotten that aspect of the game (the public dice).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the betting thing, i can't remember what we did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we played it, i wish i could.  If you can't bet, 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can't raise
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someones and bluff them out.  Is it that if you want 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in you have to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> say something as high or higher than one the last 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person said so that to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff someone out you have to basically say you have 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something higher than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them to push them out?  Just tryin to wrap my head 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around it hehe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the chat window, we also need a place to list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the players in the room (since there may be more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players than are sitting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> down).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>   On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 1:51 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labeled version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Mar 14, 2010 at 4:44 PM, eric drewes <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> figarus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have started on the UI but I think we need to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work out some kinks in the game flow before i 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finalize things...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basically i was trying to think of this game from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a multiplayer perspective and I have a problem w/ 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the standard raise/call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> format of poker in relevance to this game.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically the gameplay comes
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from divulging the type and combination of dice you 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have, and since you tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or what you're pretending 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have) every turn,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> betting doesn't work in the conventional way.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Basically I was thinking that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than escalating the bets manually as 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, I think there should be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an "ante" to stay in whenever it is your turn, so 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have the choice of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either folding out of the game or putting in a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-defined ante, telling
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone what you have (or are pretending to have) 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that either beats, or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matches the previous player, or calling the bluff 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the previous player.  I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> realize this is a slight deviation from the current 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design but I think it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will function much more cleanly and it makes more 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense when put into a game
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.  Basically we can have multiple 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes, so there can be a high
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game where its 10 gold a round, or a low 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stakes game where it's 1
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gold per round, etc. or perhaps the amount of ante 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to stay in per round
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> escalated (i.e. it's low in the first couple of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rounds but when you get into
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 5th or 6th round the stakes get higher making 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a riskier thing (and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus more fun!) to continue or bluff or call a 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluff.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Another thing I was thinking about and this was a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit of omission when Alan and I were trying to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> remember how we played the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game, there was some publicly displayed amount of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice, either dice that are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shared by all players or maybe each players first 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice are displayed, this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will give something for other players to try to 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judge whether the person is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bluffing or not and to try to calculate the odds.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game was originally
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conceived of as a combination of the liar's dice 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> game on pirates of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carribean and texas hold'em, so I am pretty sure 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having that visible dice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was part of what made the game fun and playable.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry it is hard to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> explain via e-mail without having dice in front of 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me but what i mean is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this:   we could either have 3 dice that are shared 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amongst all players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (like the flop in texas hold'em)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There's 3 public dice, they are rolled once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone ante's up - let's say a 3, a 6 and a 2 are 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled.  Now the players
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> roll their first 2 hidden dice.  Player one sees he 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled a 3 and a 4 in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> his personal hidden dice, and claims he has a pair 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of 3's.  The rest of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players can see all he needed to do was roll one 3 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> himself in order to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that pair of 3's so he is probably not bluffing.  
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The game escalates from
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise the second version could work where
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every players first 3 dice are visible to all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> players, and all subsequence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls are hidden.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fun part of gambling and playing these games
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is figuring out the odds, trying to get lucky on 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dice rolls and trying to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guess if other people are bluffing.  Part of all 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> three of those things is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> giving people hints to try to guess at what the 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other person REALLY has.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Having the visible dice is that tantalizing hint. 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What do you guy's think?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

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