Thank you all for your help with my spinning question, yes it is harder than I thought as you all suggested. On the subject of accidents, I am building a simplex, never driven one, never lit a fire in one. yes I am new to this and would be glad of a training program of sorts. I can understand people that have been building / running locos for years been a little miffed at the thought of having to take a test but is it that dangerous?? Do boilers explode on a regular basis? I have just had a telling off for suggesting using brass for my inner dome, if i did the world would end or de railments happen tipping people off onto the floor. this is a topic close to you all by the amount of posts you are getting. Im alarmed do i need to join the dangerous sports society. Oh just a quick one anybody know where i can get pickling solution from in the uk? dont think reeves do it anymore, must be far to dangerous Keith MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.