[Wittrs] Re: When is "brain talk" really dualism?
- From: "swmaerske" <SWMirsky@xxxxxxx>
- To: wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 15:54:24 -0000
--- In Wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, kirby urner <kirby.urner@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:11 AM, swmaerske<SWMirsky@...> wrote:
>
> << snip >>
>
> > You're the one who is claiming that Wittgenstein's work supports your
> > interpretation that "subjective experience" is "the microcosm", "the all"
> > or "the visual room"! So it is for you to provide evidence that your
> > interpretation is correct, either by argument or by some direct quotes
> > which show him saying or arguing for such a position.
> >
> > SWM
> >
>
> "Subjective experience" is way too ugly-redundant to be a pointer to
> anything, let alone "microcosm", which is a beautiful word, or try
> "private sky" (R.B. Fuller).
>
> "Microcosm" embeds in, maps to, is contained in "Macrocosm" and the
> relation between these two is a subject in architecture, in the design
> of the Globe Theater (see 'The Art of Memory' by Francis A. Yates).
>
> "Objective experience" is just as much "microcosm" as "subjective
> experience". Try: experience = workflow = scenario. The closely
> associated word for "experience" is "the world" in TLP, i.e. that
> which is the case somewhat minus the "self" (aka viewpoint) which is
> more just a part of the logic (not the subject of science, so much as
> philosophy).
>
> The PI undermines or subverts the TLP i.e. is active counter to the
> author's previous work. "Disavowal" would be too much a turning one's
> back and walking away, bespeaking a lack of introspection or self
> reflection (he needs to grapple, not dodge). That's why he wanted
> both to be studied. There's a kind of stereography going on.
>
> Kirby
>
Wittgenstein himself states that he came to "recognize grave mistakes" in the
earlier work.
From Wittgenstein's preface to the PI (MacMillan, 3rd Edition, tr. G.E.M.
Anscombe):
The thoughts which I publish in what follows are the precipitate of
philosophical investigations which have occupied me for the last sixteen years.
They concern many subjects: the concepts of meaning, of understanding, of a
proposition, of logic, the foundations of mathematics, states of consciousness,
and other things. I have written down all these thoughts as remarks, short
paragraphs, of which there is sometimes a fairly long chain about the same
subject, while I sometimes make a sudden change, jumping from one topic to
another. . . . the essential thing was that the thoughts should proceed from
one subject to another in a natural order and without breaks.
. . . The philosophical remarks in this book are, as it were, a number of
sketches of landscape which were made in the course of these long and involved
journeyings. . . .
Four years ago I had occasion to re-read my first book (the Tractatus
Logico-Philosphicus) and to explain its ideas to someone. It suddenly seemed to
me that I should publish those old thoughts and the new ones together: that the
latter could be seen in the right light only by contrast with and against the
background of my old way of thinking.
For since beginning to occupy myself with philosophy again, sixteen years ago,
I have been forced to recognize grave mistakes in what I wrote in that first
book. I was helped to realize these mistakes -- to a degree which I myself am
hardly able to estimate -- by the criticism which my ideas encountered from
Frank Ramsey, with whom I discussed them in innumerable conversations during
the last two years of his life. Even more than to this . . . criticism I am
indebted to that which a teacher of this university, Mr. P. Sraffa, for many
years unceasingly practiced on my thoughts . . .
I should not like my writing to spare other people the trouble of thinking.
But, if possible, to stiumulate someone to thoughts of his own.
I should have liked to produce a good book. This has not come about, but the
time is past in which I could improve it.
Cambridge
January 1945
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