--- In Wittrs@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "gabuddabout" <wittrsamr@...> wrote: > What Bruce is getting at is simply his notion of having power to do and think things > regardless of a story as to how the brain causes consciousness. You have said nice things about me, so I don't want to appear ungrateful, but "regardless" is too strong. Sacks has some very illuminating things to say about what it means to be human (having power to do and think things) which are informed by how the brain works. So, the story of our mental live ought not be divorced from the story of how the brain works. Hence...I agree. > But this isn't an argument/can't be an argument against the thesis that the brain causes/realizes cons. in some synchronically causal way Right! That the brain story is different from the mind story should not imply that these two different stories are totally unrelated (Chalmer's Gap?). What interests me is the relationship. Please don't see me as picking on words. But "cause" and "realizes" have different connotations for me. Just what is it you are saying? > the philosophical account is indeed a sort of identity theory without ontological reduction. My limited understanding is this: If brain and mind are conceived of as two different somethings, irreducible to one another, then they can't be placed in a causal relationship, as conventionally understood. I don't know whether one can "realize" the other because I can't get a purchase on how "realizing" operates. Budd, I think you really get the "autonomy of mind" part of what I'm saying. But there is another part. I rather doubt that the brain/mind relationship is best grasped in mechanical terms as two things working together or apart. In a sense, I'm closer to Stuart than he is to himself. While he says "the mind isn't an entity", he is happy with making the mind a product of an entity (brain). In contrast, I agree the mind isn't an entity, so can't be conceived as product. In my thinking, our mind is best conceived as an instrument whose performance is informed, limited, shaped by how our brains have involved. ========================================= Need Something? Check here: http://ludwig.squarespace.com/wittrslinks/