[gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea
- From: Bob Pendleton <bob@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 17:28:32 -0600
On Tue, 2005-12-20 at 09:19 -0500, Laurence Grant wrote:
> I hear you all, and some of your points are good and I will consider how to
> fit them in. I still think everyone is getting too hung up on comparing a
> corporation to a real-life. People are assuming this means managers don't
> do the fun stuff or that the guys who want to do the fun stuff get stuck
> doing the menial labor.
>
> I don't see either of these as the case. I see managers more like wing
> commanders, giving orders to their small group. For example, I hated
> Planetside because you could just run out and grab a new vehicle when ever
> you wanted. There was no one questioning your actions and you were free to
> be frivolous with the teams resources. If you were really bad at using that
> vehicle no one stopped you or required you to get training, etc... What I'd
> like to see is all the players being tied to different units within the
> corp. Those units have limited resources assigned to them and limited
> weapons and vehicles. Someone in charge has to reserve the right to grant
> these resources to players. As the unit leader they'll be working with
> other leaders in the corporation to get more resources, trade talent based
> on their experience with other players, and take direction from the higher
> ups. If the leader is failing his duties, the higher ups will be able to
> see this.
>
> I see military commanders within the corporation deciding on the
> corporations overall direction, steal, research, discover, politics, focus
> on controlling a city vs a planet vs building a space navy or an entire
> space armada. The corporation will decide if they want to build a space
> station or a ground facility. Then they'll have to push assignments down to
> the lower ranks to guard these facilities, guard cargo transports (mining)
> or deliveries (when buying/selling merchandise). Other players will be
> gunning for your goods all the time. They'll use certain units for
> attacking enemy installations, and setting up raids. Some units might go
> rogue, but if they do they'll lose the resources coming to them from the
> corporation and be left high and dry.
>
> Players will side with and join a corporation for many reasons, including
> it's well established, they like the players, the corporation has already
> done the research and has cool vehicles or weapons. A player will play to
> prove himself to the corp to try and get the better weapons and vehicles,
> but a newbie just starting wont have access to all that cool stuff by
> default, unless that's how the corp wants it, but if that were the case I'd
> be surprised if the corp grew and became that successful.
>
> As the corp grows they'll build new facilities, new bases, conquer enemy
> bases and planets, build new capital ships, etc... All this will require new
> commanders and new units, so there is a lot of room for growth in a well run
> and prosperous corporation, so I don't think things will be boring.
>
> It might be a little less exciting for a newbie, but I think taking
> direction from real people and not going solo on computer AI missions will
> add a lot of dynamics a newbie never had. I also don't think they'll spend
> a lot of time mining or doing mundane tasks. I personally wouldn't want to
> see it evolve that way, and think most of those tasks can and should be
> handled by AI, except when the corp decides it's a lot more economical to
> have 50 players mining for an hour than to build 50 resource collectors.
> This would hopefully only be done in extreme cases; otherwise people won't
> stick around with the corporation very long.
>
> I also see newbie pilots getting cargo type missions which can still be fun,
> but not as fun as a fighter escort. However, maybe if the unit lead knows
> the cargo run is through a hostile area he'll want to have a human pilot who
> can think and make better decisions than an AI. The pilot might then
> request an escort or get his buddy who is already a fighter pilot to escort
> him. It's up to the corporation if the fighter pilot can just go and escort
> or needs to get permission.
>
> Phew, I'm tired of typing.
>
> I do like some of the ideas of letting team mates rate other players in
> action. I also expect to have internal player stats so higher ups can see
> who is performing better than another. What's better a player having 20
> kills in battle but having gone through 5 vehicles to do it, or a guy with
> 10 kills but never lost a vehicle? With proper stats we can track that and
> provide it back to the higher ups automatically.
>
> Anyway, this is what I'm building.
There is a field of psychology called, IIRC, motivational analysis. It
was really big in the corporate world back in the 80s and is still
pretty popular with corporate managers. The idea is that different
people are motivated by different out side stimuli. Some people are
strongly motivated by a challenge. Some are strongly motivated by money.
Others are strongly motivated by approval. There are a number of
different motivational categories and most people are strongly motivated
by 1 single category. Others are motivated by a combination of 2
factors. (I was was described as a managerial nightmare by a management
consultant because I am motivated by 3 different factors.)
People like long term corporate employees, salesmen, and military people
are very strongly motivated by approval. According to the US-DOD
programmers are the group least motivated by approval. (They did a *lot*
of studies to figure out why programmers don't work well with military
personnel.) IMHO the game you are designing will appeal strongly to
people motivated by approval. This could be why you are having trouble
finding programmers who want to work on it and why there aren't other
games more like it.
Developing games for people who aren't like programmers and other
techies is a good thing. Very hard to do, but a good thing.
Bob Pendleton
>
> LG
>
> PS: All the replies have been terrific. It's really good to get other ideas
> and learn what people think sounds good and bad.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gameprogrammer-
> > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Josh Stewart
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2005 7:14 AM
> > To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea
> >
> > Laurence Grant wrote:
> >
> > > You are all still missing the point, IMO
> > >
> > > This isn't like other games where the AI defines how the corporation
> > > is run. The corporations or clans or what ever you choose to call them
> > > are run by players, and as a member of that corporation you are
> > > carrying out the requests of the founders and managers of the
> > > corporation. Unlike lame MMO games of today where the missions are
> > > predefined. These corporations are ran by players so each group can go
> > > off in completely different directions. The idea is not to impose ANY
> > > of the boring tasks normally associated with leveling. The idea is to
> > > get people involved at different levels of management so they can all
> > > participate at appropriate levels. There choosing to send out scouting
> > > parties, raid enemy bases, steal supplies, build up their defenses,
> > > etc. It's all driven by the players.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > I think the problem with this is you get leaders that are ordering
> > people places, but those people can just ignore the general. There is no
> > reason for them to do anything the general asks. Then its not fun to be
> > general. But maybe the general has the power to dish out "pay" or "level
> > up creds".. everyone will do what he says to get a reward.
> > whats to stop him leveling up his own clones?
> > If you have a deep heirarchy of middle managers, they will get bored
> > (just like in real life) because they dont really have any power or
> > authority.. and are just another stamp on the paper work.
> > The thing is people still do these jobs in the real world because you
> > get paid. Maybe there is a way to reward people doing boring jobs. But
> > these jobs still need to be fullfilling for the player, otherwise its
> > just another levelup grind-a-thon
> > Managers are fullfilled if they have authority to make decision that
> > will affect the area they are in, but unlike the real world, managers
> > will still want to be a PvP god in their war ship.. even the general
> > wont be happy sitting at their virtual desk all day, directing corporate
> > strategy..
> >
> >
> >
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