[gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea

I think the concept of several "career" paths would work but achieving the 
position of CEO could be tricky. If there are too many, the position becomes 
watered down. If there are not enough, there are too few opportunities for 
attaining that level of advancement. In both cases, the game would suffer. As 
for other careers such as pilot, soldier, scientist, trader, smuggler, or 
whatever they are, it would be easy to have high positions at the end of each 
of those career paths. Again the problem still arises that everyone wants to be 
the best. So you are faced with the same dilemma. 

How to balance the game without destroying it, that is the real task. People 
are going to complain about anything you do in a MMO, history shows this. Lets 
assume you have (X) amount of top positions in a career path. Are there any 
instances through inactivity (a player gets to the top and then only logs that 
character enough to keep the position, without really doing anything to affect 
the game world) would be able to lose that position via some type of status 
(level, experience, money, . . .) to keep the game competitive. Face it, if you 
are shooting for corporate simulation, there must be knock down drag out 
competition. That way, a new player always has something to aspire to instead 
of reaching a certain level only to find all the work they have done has gotten 
them as far as they can go. 

I imagine the number of top positions could be simply based on the percentage 
total players. Either way, it will be a heck of a chore to try making people 
happy by ensuring there are opportunities. 

Steven  

-----Original Message-----
From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
[mailto:gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Laurence Grant
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 5:12 PM
To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea



> -----Original Message-----
> From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gameprogrammer-
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of AIM3CPO BRADLEY
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 3:48 PM
> To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea
> 
> That sounds good. Let me play devils advocate for a moment.
> 
> #1 - Let's say I am a player in your world. What would be the enticement
> to join a corporation? How much control would a common player have? The
> reasons I ask, is most RPG players, play a game to be "the" hero. Very few
> people play a game to be a side kick.
> 

The heads of corporations and their board of directors will be players, so
these individuals might see themselves that way.  However I also foresee
corporations having armies, air force, special combat units, etc. I would
also foresee someone who love space sims like wing commander to thrive as a
pilot and become a hero to the corporation.  That doesn't mean he/she has to
run the corporation to be the hero.

> In the corporations, would it be possible for a normal player to become
> the CEO? Or would that be an NPC position? I was thinking that it would be
> cool to be able to alter the big picture of a corporation and affect the
> game in a large scale by changing some of the variables in the
> administration of the corp. Hard to say what without knowing what
> attributes the corporations will have. Possibly voting the position based
> on performance.

Individuals will run the corporation and individuals with enough funding and
followers will be able to start their own brand new corporations.

I only see NPC's being used where players don't want to perform the boring
stuff, like tending drinks in the bar or guarding prisoners or mining or
flying the cargo ships. However, I plan on making it so a player mining will
be faster and more efficient than an NPC, so if the corporation is planning
a major offensive, they might insist that players assist with mining so they
can build up their reserve.  Of a human pilot might be able to foresee and
outwit an attacker where an NPC pilot might just surrender the cargo or be
blown out of the sky.

And yes, there will be a CEO and board members, and it's the checks and
balances between them that keep things in check.

I plan on allowing the corporations to set their own organizations and
structure and have the freedom to set their own rules for how they want to
run things.

For example, a player tasked with managing all the resources needed to build
space fighters might spend time doing that, and also be the guy who manages
the assembly line.  However, he might not be able to use the vehicles he's
building, as someone else might be in charge of the inventory.  No player
can go up and just take any vehicle, unless the corporations management team
give the player that privilege. 

> 
> #2 - How much control will the corporations have over the total game play
> experience? I mean, will they be the only way to truly succeed in the game
> or would an outcast have an opportunity to become wealthy or successful or
> would there be some tier of success that could only be achieved through a
> corp?
> 

I think bandits and mercenaries for hire can succeed without being tied
directly to a corporation, and as a matter of fact I'd expect the better
ones to gain so much power that it would only make sense for them to start
their own corporation.

I also expect to have hidden treasures of great value around the universe.
I want a sense of adventure for solo players to go hunting.  Some treasure
they might just sell, but some might be technology that gives them a huge
edge so even as a solo player, they might be able to go head to head against
a large corporation because of a new technology superiority.


> Well, I like the idea and I can see you have put a lot of thought into
> what you want to do. Good luck.
> 

Yeah, it's not a small task, I realize that.  But I have been thinking about
this for a very long time and have documented hundreds of pages on it over
the years.

However, I'm also pretty confident it's not an unrealistic goal for a few
reasons:

1. I don't expect to spend a lot of time on AI, since I want the AI
simplistic and real players doing most of the work.

2. I'm note setting up and managing a lot of predefined missions because I
want the players in the corporations to do this as part of their gaming
experience.  There will be some for solo players, but I hope and expect it
to evolve into the corporations doing most of the work, and I even expect
these corporations to give solo players missions 

3. Since I want the corporations/players to be doing most of the work, I
don't actually expect to code an overwhelming amount of logic.  I think I
just need to provide the hooks and building blocks to let the players go
wild

So you see, I think it's doable, and if I could nail down the engine, I'm
anxious to get heads-down into the game.


> Steven
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gameprogrammer-
> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Laurence Grant
> Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 3:13 PM
> To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea
> 
> I agree completely, and that's why I'm not suggesting to build something
> that enforces anything, but to build the tools that enable the players to
> act how they want.
> 
> There are two parts to this vision.  One is to provide multi-genre that
> incorporates RPG, RTS, FPS, SIM, Adventure, etc... into a single gaming
> environment.  I believe this will enable gamers who wouldn't normally play
> together to finally participate in the same game, in their preferred areas
> of game play, but their actions impacting each other.
> 
> Second is the idea of a corporation, as I see this being the root enabler
> to
> a true MASSIVELY Multi-Player experience.  However, I also expect players
> to
> want to say solo, and would never hamper that.  As I said players can't
> buy
> the better stuff in the NPC cities, but other corporations will be able to
> sell what they want.  I also see people joining corporations, working
> their
> way up the chain to get a better vehicle as they want it, then stealing it
> and going solo.  It'll be up to the corporation if they want to waste the
> resources to go after that player or not, but that player probably wont be
> getting anything from that corporation in the future.
> 
> I hope you see what I mean?  I'm not planning to dictate anything, but
> provide a set of building blocks and concepts to let players build bigger
> and better worlds on their own.
> 
> L
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gameprogrammer-
> > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of AIM3CPO BRADLEY
> > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 11:59 AM
> > To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea
> >
> > Interesting topic. I don't believe the best approach to an MMO is to
> force
> > game play preference on players. If a player wants to be a lone wolf,
> they
> > should have that opportunity. If you want to entice them to play in
> teams
> > then have a reward system for that type of game play without limiting
> the
> > lone players. I.e. More experience, loot, monster spawns . . . Could be
> > anything. As stated earlier, people are going to act in unpredictable
> > ways. This in itself is a good thing. As developers, instead of trying
> to
> > tailor the game to how we "think" the player "should" play, create a
> rule
> > set for your world in a logical manner. It would need to be something
> that
> > can stand on its own when the players start tinkering with the various
> > facets of the game. Simply, we can't (and never will be able to) guess
> > what any particular player is going to try and do. We can, give them a
> > solid rule set to interface the world with and let their imagination run
> > wild! After all, isn't that what gaming is about?
> >
> > Steven
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gameprogrammer-
> > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Laurence Grant
> > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 11:34 AM
> > To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: gameprogrammer-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:gameprogrammer-
> > > bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Roger D Vargas
> > > Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 12:03 PM
> > > To: gameprogrammer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [gameprogrammer] Re: MMO Idea
> > >
> > > One of the problems I see in the system is the individuality inherent
> to
> > > humans.
> > > I have some experience with online games and even when the idea is to
> > > collaborate and play in team, it is always hard to find a good team
> even
> > > when there are a lot of players with the same needs (xp, items, etc).
> > > The most effective way to force player to something close to full time
> > > teamplay I have seen is in games like Vendetta or Ogame. An alone
> player
> > > is easy prey for players beloging to powerfull alliances.
> > > And this is the only way I see to force collaborative play. Make the
> > > environment so hard and aggressive that lonely wolves cant survive.
> >
> > I realize a lot of people want to start out on their own and check
> things
> > out.  I expect to have some of the more traditional NPC missions and NPC
> > ran
> > cities where you can buy items, rent vehicles, etc... But in the end,
> > you'll
> > never get the really good stuff at an NPC city.
> >
> > Out side of the city players are vulnerable, everything is potentially a
> > PvP, but since players don't become SUPER only corporations do, I don't
> > foresee a wild player going around killing everyone.  A nasty
> corporation
> > might attempt that, but that's where the other corporations might band
> > together and take them down.  Once a corporation is taken down, they can
> > lose everything and have to start all over again.
> >
> > Individual players can save their DNA and come back as clones, but if
> you
> > have no items to come back to, you're still starting over except for the
> > personal experience your character has learned.
> >
> > >
> > > Charlie Lobo wrote:
> > > > Your idea sounds great, but I fear that various problems might
> arise.
> > > > Not because the system is flawed, but because we humans love to
> break
> > > > systems and take advantage of them. Maybe you should start a MUD
> > > > experimenting with some of the new social factors, to be able to
> check
> > > > how the system actually works. It'd be easier and of course it'd be
> a
> > > > good game. It doesn't have to be THAT game, but a game where some of
> > > > the concepts you talk of are used. Maybe this could be on the
> medieval
> > > > times, there'd still be a lot to deal with.
> > > > I don't say how people could ruin the game, because I have no idea,
> > > > but then again I'm not everyone else to know what they can think of.
> > > > Just a tip, I've seen lots of good ideas fail and be ignored because
> > > > they where implemented in a too ambitious proposal without first
> > > > seeing what people would do. If it were a simpler project, failure
> > > > wouldn't be as bad and fixes are easier. In a MUD you can always add
> > > > new things by adding more text :P.
> > > >
> >
> > Yes, I've often thought about this.  I was looking to do a completely
> text
> > based game, then I was thinking to do a hybrid like Runescape.
> >
> > The more I got into each I questioned would anyone really play a text
> game
> > in volume these days, and given the amount of work to do it in a 2D
> Hybrid
> > like Runescape is not a trivial project and maybe I should just do it
> full
> > 3D.
> >
> > I agree with both your points that people are human natured and as such
> > will
> > try and break, corrupt and influence the game play for themselves.
> > However,
> > I kind of think that's the idea too.  As long as the game isn't being
> > hacked, which is a different challenge, I want to provide the gaming
> > community the tools to self police.
> >
> > Thanks for the feedback
> >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Roger D. Vargas
> > > http://dsgp.blogspot.com | Linux, programación, juegos
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
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> > >
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