[SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino

  • From: Nathan Asdourian <rawliquid@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 12:59:14 -0700

Thank you, my explaination was much less informative and likely come across
wrong....in any case I know someone over at ardupilot put together an
excellent flash 'demo' where you can move around a little drone while
adjusting the p I and d values for its autopilot. if I come across it again
I will post the link.
On Jun 29, 2014 12:37 AM, "Florin Mingireanu" <florin.mingireanu82@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Vicente,
>
> PID stands for proportional-integrative-derivative and represents a
> control loop feedback mechanism.
>
> Arduino is a microcontroller on which the PID can be implemented to
> maintain a variable to a setpoint.
>
> Florin
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Certainly it is a good option.
>> Now we have to choose which is the best. If arduino or PID.
>> Please ask all people collaboration available to design this oven.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 14:40:38 -0700
>>
>> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
>> From: rawliquid@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> I noticed the other day that there is actually already a pid library for
>> arduino, as well as an autotuning library....not sure if anyone has started
>> programming yet
>> On Jun 28, 2014 9:37 AM, "Vicente Alvero Zambrano" <
>> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tim,
>> Any news?
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
>> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 11:06:02 +0200
>>
>> Sorry for the delay Tim, I've been busy these days. I'll try to answer
>> your questions.
>>
>> 1) What is the weight of the heaviest item you envision heating?
>>
>> In principle, the heaviest element we want to cure is the nosecone. I do
>> not know exactly the weight of this piece because it is not yet defined.
>> Say, as long long, 3 kg.
>>
>>
>> 2) What is the specific heat of the materials used?
>>
>>
>> I do not know the specific heat of fiberglass fiber, but maybe we can
>> make an approximation here:
>>
>> http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=462fd1da8ad245b2ad40093889016448
>>
>>
>> 3) What is the maximum temperature required?
>>
>>
>> With the current resin we are using, the maximum curing temperature is 80
>> ° C.
>>
>> But we have used resins with a maximum curing temperature of 200 ° C.
>>
>>
>> 4) What is the maximum rate of temperature rise per min or per hour?
>>
>>
>> Approximately, the temperature rise is usually 10 ° C / h
>>
>>
>> 5) Will you be doing this work in Europe?   I need to know what type of
>> power source you have available. Voltage and Amperage on the circuit you
>> plan to use.
>>
>>
>> In Spain, the voltage is 220V with a frequency of 50Hz
>> ------------------------------
>> From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:26:26 -0700
>> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
>> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Vicente,
>>
>> To attempt to answer your questions I need some information.
>>
>> 1) What is the weight of the heaviest item you envision heating?
>>
>> 2) What is the specific heat of the materials used?
>> 3) What is the maximum temperature required?
>> 4) What is the maximum rate of temperature rise per min or per hour?
>> 5) Will you be doing this work in Europe?   I need to know what type of
>> power source you have available. Voltage and Amperage on the circuit you
>> plan to use.
>>
>> You gave 100 C as the max temperature required. I could not find any
>> epoxy systems that recommend such a low curing temperature.
>> I see 120-C to 180-C for Epoxy, 150-C to 180-C for Phenolics, and up to
>> 290-C for Polyimides
>>
>> For Epoxy I see 1-C / Min to 5-C / Min rise.
>>
>> This is 60-C to 300-C per hour.   This is very different from the
>> example you gave.
>>
>> example:
>> 20 ° C to 100 ° C by increments of 20 ° C / h.
>> 5 hours at 100 ° C.
>> 100 ° C at 20 ° C with a decrease of 20 ° C.
>> Ideally develop a graphical interface to vary these parameters at will.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
>> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tim,
>>
>> Unfortunately, we can not spend $ 180 on this system. On the other hand,
>> given that the PID is the best option, we can opt for this.
>>
>> We have a PID we bought last year. PID is REX-C700. I also have a
>> thermocouple type K 2 meters in length. So we can use this.
>>
>> Now the question is, what fan?, What resistance?, What power?
>>
>> Opinions?, Comments?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:04:29 -0700
>>
>> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
>> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Depending on how you locate the heaters you may find that you'll have
>> problems maintaining uniform temperature throughout the oven with your
>> planned dimensions of 2 x0.5 x 0.5 m (Free).  Long oven shapes are more
>> difficult to keep at a uniform temperature.   Long oven can be beneficial
>> if you have a process that requires different temperatures along the route
>> through the oven tunnel.   In a tunnel oven you are normally applying spot
>> heat directly or via infrared.
>>
>> In a convection oven, like what you want, the heat is applied indirectly
>> via the surrounding medium, air in this case.   Normally the heat source is
>> not directly in the area with the product your heating. You want some heat
>> barrier (wood, steel, or aluminum plate) between it & the product to avoid
>> spot heating.   Larger ovens would use a supply fan with additional
>> stirring fans to maintain uniform temperature.
>>
>> Just for consideration.  This could all be inside your plywood & foam
>> box. Heater section with stir fan(s) -> Aluminum plate barrier to direct
>> heating -> oven space with stir fan(s).   Also you can often get lower cost
>> fans if the motor is mounted outside the oven with only the blade in the
>> heated space.
>>
>> The control portion of your job requires nothing unique that requires new
>> research or development efforts.   This is a straight forward case of
>> application engineering for this cure oven.
>>
>> It seems to me that with the Arduino you're starting from scratch to
>> re-develop the wheel.  This may be fun but is unnecessary with the
>> abundance of low cost, off the shelf controllers, & software available.
>> Granted these weren't available 20-years ago but neither was the Arduino.
>> The design, testing,  & debugging of the software interface for the
>> controller is where you'll be spending or wasting your time, depending upon
>> the results.
>>
>> The BCS-460 is a fully debugged Temperature Controller with Everything
>> you want & much more. $180.
>> Graphical, Web, & Smart Phone Software Interface.
>> 8 Programmable outputs each with 8-stages.
>> 4 Sensor inputs
>> You can pre-program & also interact with the settings on the fly.
>> http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com
>> *Graphi**cs Screenshots*
>> http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/screenshots.html
>>
>> The BCS-460 has 4 temp sensor inputs.   These are any ntc 10k ohm
>> thermistor that you can get 100 for $8 plus shipping online or $0.75ea plus
>> shipping from SparkFun.
>> For your curing operation you will want to know the temperature of the
>> part, not just the oven temperature.   What is often done is to use a scrap
>> or dummy piece of what you are curing & embed the sensor at the spot that
>> the temperature is most critical to sense
>>
>>
>> *BCS-460 Controller  Graphical, Web, & Smart Phone Software* *Interface*
>> (These will do what you ask of them. Don't get tripped-up by what they're
>> called. Curing a composite part is less sophisticated than running a
>> Brewery)
>>
>> https://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-460-Brewery-Control-System.html
>> *iPhone Interface Demo*
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r9hCVYSt2Y
>> *Software Documentation*
>> http://wiki.embeddedcc.com/index.php/Main_Page
>>
>> *Other Electronics* *starting around $15* (some of these have the
>> ability to output to your computer some come with software)
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR8.TRC1.A0.H1.Xpid+temp&_nkw=pid+temperature+controller&_sacat=0&_from=R40
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 4:02 AM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
>> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The main idea is to made a home oven from plywood and foam insulation. I
>> planned dimensions of 2 x0.5 x 0.5 m (Free). With these dimensions we can
>> cure any parts necessary for SS2S project. Recall that the largest piece so
>> far is the nosecone (1507 mm).
>> For smaller piece, and in order not to waste energy, I have thought the
>> manufacture of a partition.
>>
>> You're right about the fans. I'm sure I can get some free fan oven, as
>> well as resistence.
>>
>> The objective of using arduino, is the possibility of developing a
>> graphical interface in which to determine the temperature ranges
>> ------------------------------
>> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
>> From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:30:38 -0700
>> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> As much fun as it is to play with Arduinos it's a waste of time & money.
>> Programmable PID Temperature Controller with single or dual sensors can
>> be purchased on eBay for $15-$60.
>>
>> Where will you be placing the temperature sensor for the controller,
>> embedded in the part or on the surface?
>> Or are you going to try to run the oven at the desired temperature and
>> guesstimate the time it takes for the part to equilibrate? I believe that
>> would problematic and take longer to achieve your cure. I think that the
>> manufacture of the composite materials should be able & more than willing
>> to provide you with general propose curing methods & procedures.
>>
>> Are you building your own over with strip heaters, fans, etc? Or are you
>> planing to interface the controller and fans to an existing oven?
>>
>> For convection circulation you only need constant speed fans and if you
>> plan on using axial flow computer type fans be aware most are rated to 60-C
>> or  70-C.
>> You can get 105-C rated fans but not from an old computer. sofasco.com
>> is one of many places you can get them. You could use standard fans but it
>> anyone's guess on how long they'll last.
>> If the parts are small you can buy small electric convection ovens sold
>> as Toster/Pizza ovens.
>> Check Walmart, Best Buy, Target, eBay, Amazon.
>>
>> Sent by Timothy Young
>>                iPad
>>
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
>> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>  Florin that's perfect.
>> The system must be simple (as cheap as possible). With a source of
>> heating (resistance) and several computer fans to circulate the air.
>> Arduino must be able to control the temperature (using the resistance and
>> the fan) according to a predefined schedule. A program is for example:
>> 20 ° C to 100 ° C by increments of 20 ° C / h.
>> 5 hours at 100 ° C.
>> 100 ° C at 20 ° C with a decrease of 20 ° C.
>> Ideally develop a graphical interface to vary these parameters at will.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 01:32:37 +0300
>> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
>> From: florin.mingireanu82@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> I can help with the temperature controller but I would need more precise
>> specifications: like temperature range, control "band" etc.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
>> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Anyone know how to make a temperature controller with arduino to make a
>> home oven to cure composite?
>> The idea is to monitor several computer fans and thermal resistances.
>> Must be able to follow a cure profile and decreased with increases in
>> temperature curing.
>> Any volunteer?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Vicente Alvero
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Florin Mingireanu
>> Romanian Space Agency
>> Str. Mendeleev 21-25, et. 5, sector 1, 010362 Bucuresti, ROMANIA
>> office tel. +40-21-316.87.22; +40-21-316.87.23;
>> cell: +40-757-768971 (primary phone)
>> fax +40-21-312.88.04
>> florin.mingireanu@xxxxxxx
>> http://www.rosa.ro
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Florin Mingireanu
> Romanian Space Agency
> Str. Mendeleev 21-25, et. 5, sector 1, 010362 Bucuresti, ROMANIA
> office tel. +40-21-316.87.22; +40-21-316.87.23;
> cell: +40-757-768971 (primary phone)
> fax +40-21-312.88.04
> florin.mingireanu@xxxxxxx
> http://www.rosa.ro
>

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