[SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino

  • From: Nathan Asdourian <rawliquid@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 14:40:38 -0700

I noticed the other day that there is actually already a pid library for
arduino, as well as an autotuning library....not sure if anyone has started
programming yet
On Jun 28, 2014 9:37 AM, "Vicente Alvero Zambrano" <
vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi Tim,
> Any news?
>
> ------------------------------
> From: vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 11:06:02 +0200
>
> Sorry for the delay Tim, I've been busy these days. I'll try to answer
> your questions.
>
> 1) What is the weight of the heaviest item you envision heating?
>
>
>
> In principle, the heaviest element we want to cure is the nosecone. I do
> not know exactly the weight of this piece because it is not yet defined.
> Say, as long long, 3 kg.
>
>
> 2) What is the specific heat of the materials used?
>
>
> I do not know the specific heat of fiberglass fiber, but maybe we can make
> an approximation here:
>
>
> http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=462fd1da8ad245b2ad40093889016448
>
>
> 3) What is the maximum temperature required?
>
>
> With the current resin we are using, the maximum curing temperature is 80
> ° C.
>
> But we have used resins with a maximum curing temperature of 200 ° C.
>
>
> 4) What is the maximum rate of temperature rise per min or per hour?
>
>
> Approximately, the temperature rise is usually 10 ° C / h
>
>
> 5) Will you be doing this work in Europe?   I need to know what type of
> power source you have available. Voltage and Amperage on the circuit you
> plan to use.
>
>
> In Spain, the voltage is 220V with a frequency of 50Hz
> ------------------------------
> From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx
> Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:26:26 -0700
> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Vicente,
>
>
>
> To attempt to answer your questions I need some information.
>
> 1) What is the weight of the heaviest item you envision heating?
>
>
>
> 2) What is the specific heat of the materials used?
>
> 3) What is the maximum temperature required?
>
> 4) What is the maximum rate of temperature rise per min or per hour?
>
> 5) Will you be doing this work in Europe?   I need to know what type of
> power source you have available. Voltage and Amperage on the circuit you
> plan to use.
>
> You gave 100 C as the max temperature required. I could not find any epoxy
> systems that recommend such a low curing temperature.
>
> I see 120-C to 180-C for Epoxy, 150-C to 180-C for Phenolics, and up to
> 290-C for Polyimides
>
>
>
> For Epoxy I see 1-C / Min to 5-C / Min rise.
>
> This is 60-C to 300-C per hour.   This is very different from the example
> you gave.
>
>
> example:
> 20 ° C to 100 ° C by increments of 20 ° C / h.
> 5 hours at 100 ° C.
> 100 ° C at 20 ° C with a decrease of 20 ° C.
> Ideally develop a graphical interface to vary these parameters at will.
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> Unfortunately, we can not spend $ 180 on this system. On the other hand,
> given that the PID is the best option, we can opt for this.
>
> We have a PID we bought last year. PID is REX-C700. I also have a
> thermocouple type K 2 meters in length. So we can use this.
>
> Now the question is, what fan?, What resistance?, What power?
>
> Opinions?, Comments?
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:04:29 -0700
>
> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Depending on how you locate the heaters you may find that you'll have
> problems maintaining uniform temperature throughout the oven with your
> planned dimensions of 2 x0.5 x 0.5 m (Free).  Long oven shapes are more
> difficult to keep at a uniform temperature.   Long oven can be beneficial
> if you have a process that requires different temperatures along the route
> through the oven tunnel.   In a tunnel oven you are normally applying spot
> heat directly or via infrared.
>
> In a convection oven, like what you want, the heat is applied indirectly
> via the surrounding medium, air in this case.   Normally the heat source is
> not directly in the area with the product your heating. You want some heat
> barrier (wood, steel, or aluminum plate) between it & the product to avoid
> spot heating.   Larger ovens would use a supply fan with additional
> stirring fans to maintain uniform temperature.
>
> Just for consideration.  This could all be inside your plywood & foam box.
> Heater section with stir fan(s) -> Aluminum plate barrier to direct heating
> -> oven space with stir fan(s).   Also you can often get lower cost fans if
> the motor is mounted outside the oven with only the blade in the heated
> space.
>
> The control portion of your job requires nothing unique that requires new
> research or development efforts.   This is a straight forward case of
> application engineering for this cure oven.
>
> It seems to me that with the Arduino you're starting from scratch to
> re-develop the wheel.  This may be fun but is unnecessary with the
> abundance of low cost, off the shelf controllers, & software available.
> Granted these weren't available 20-years ago but neither was the Arduino.
> The design, testing,  & debugging of the software interface for the
> controller is where you'll be spending or wasting your time, depending upon
> the results.
>
> The BCS-460 is a fully debugged Temperature Controller with Everything you
> want & much more. $180.
> Graphical, Web, & Smart Phone Software Interface.
> 8 Programmable outputs each with 8-stages.
> 4 Sensor inputs
> You can pre-program & also interact with the settings on the fly.
> http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com
> *Graphi**cs Screenshots*
> http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/screenshots.html
>
> The BCS-460 has 4 temp sensor inputs.   These are any ntc 10k ohm
> thermistor that you can get 100 for $8 plus shipping online or $0.75ea plus
> shipping from SparkFun.
> For your curing operation you will want to know the temperature of the
> part, not just the oven temperature.   What is often done is to use a scrap
> or dummy piece of what you are curing & embed the sensor at the spot that
> the temperature is most critical to sense
>
>
> *BCS-460 Controller  Graphical, Web, & Smart Phone Software* *Interface*
> (These will do what you ask of them. Don't get tripped-up by what they're
> called. Curing a composite part is less sophisticated than running a
> Brewery)
>
> https://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-460-Brewery-Control-System.html
> *iPhone Interface Demo*
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r9hCVYSt2Y
> *Software Documentation*
> http://wiki.embeddedcc.com/index.php/Main_Page
>
> *Other Electronics* *starting around $15* (some of these have the ability
> to output to your computer some come with software)
>
> http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR8.TRC1.A0.H1.Xpid+temp&_nkw=pid+temperature+controller&_sacat=0&_from=R40
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 4:02 AM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The main idea is to made a home oven from plywood and foam insulation. I
> planned dimensions of 2 x0.5 x 0.5 m (Free). With these dimensions we can
> cure any parts necessary for SS2S project. Recall that the largest piece so
> far is the nosecone (1507 mm).
> For smaller piece, and in order not to waste energy, I have thought the
> manufacture of a partition.
>
> You're right about the fans. I'm sure I can get some free fan oven, as
> well as resistence.
>
> The objective of using arduino, is the possibility of developing a
> graphical interface in which to determine the temperature ranges
> ------------------------------
> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
> From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx
> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:30:38 -0700
> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> As much fun as it is to play with Arduinos it's a waste of time & money.
> Programmable PID Temperature Controller with single or dual sensors can be
> purchased on eBay for $15-$60.
>
> Where will you be placing the temperature sensor for the controller,
> embedded in the part or on the surface?
> Or are you going to try to run the oven at the desired temperature and
> guesstimate the time it takes for the part to equilibrate? I believe that
> would problematic and take longer to achieve your cure. I think that the
> manufacture of the composite materials should be able & more than willing
> to provide you with general propose curing methods & procedures.
>
> Are you building your own over with strip heaters, fans, etc? Or are you
> planing to interface the controller and fans to an existing oven?
>
> For convection circulation you only need constant speed fans and if you
> plan on using axial flow computer type fans be aware most are rated to 60-C
> or  70-C.
> You can get 105-C rated fans but not from an old computer. sofasco.com is
> one of many places you can get them. You could use standard fans but it
> anyone's guess on how long they'll last.
> If the parts are small you can buy small electric convection ovens sold as
> Toster/Pizza ovens.
> Check Walmart, Best Buy, Target, eBay, Amazon.
>
> Sent by Timothy Young
>                iPad
>
>
> On Jun 20, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>  Florin that's perfect.
> The system must be simple (as cheap as possible). With a source of heating
> (resistance) and several computer fans to circulate the air. Arduino must
> be able to control the temperature (using the resistance and the fan)
> according to a predefined schedule. A program is for example:
> 20 ° C to 100 ° C by increments of 20 ° C / h.
> 5 hours at 100 ° C.
> 100 ° C at 20 ° C with a decrease of 20 ° C.
> Ideally develop a graphical interface to vary these parameters at will.
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 01:32:37 +0300
> Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
> From: florin.mingireanu82@xxxxxxxxx
> To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> I can help with the temperature controller but I would need more precise
> specifications: like temperature range, control "band" etc.
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano <
> vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> Anyone know how to make a temperature controller with arduino to make a
> home oven to cure composite?
> The idea is to monitor several computer fans and thermal resistances. Must
> be able to follow a cure profile and decreased with increases in
> temperature curing.
> Any volunteer?
>
> Cheers
> Vicente Alvero
>
>
>
>
> --
> Florin Mingireanu
> Romanian Space Agency
> Str. Mendeleev 21-25, et. 5, sector 1, 010362 Bucuresti, ROMANIA
> office tel. +40-21-316.87.22; +40-21-316.87.23;
> cell: +40-757-768971 (primary phone)
> fax +40-21-312.88.04
> florin.mingireanu@xxxxxxx
> http://www.rosa.ro
>
>
>
>

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