[SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino

  • From: Vicente Alvero Zambrano <vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 00:16:35 +0200

Certainly it is a good option. Now we have to choose which is the best. If 
arduino or PID. Please ask all people collaboration available to design this 
oven.
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 14:40:38 -0700
Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
From: rawliquid@xxxxxxxxx
To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I noticed the other day that there is actually already a pid library for 
arduino, as well as an autotuning library....not sure if anyone has started 
programming yet
On Jun 28, 2014 9:37 AM, "Vicente Alvero Zambrano" 
<vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:




Hi Tim,Any news?

From: vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx
To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 11:06:02 +0200




Sorry for the delay Tim, I've been busy these days. I'll try to answer your 
questions.
1) What is the weight of the heaviest item you envision heating?

 
In principle, the heaviest element we want to cure is the nosecone. I do not 
know exactly the weight of this piece because it is not yet defined. Say, as 
long long, 3 kg.



2) What is the specific heat of the materials used?


I do not know the specific heat of fiberglass fiber, but maybe we can make an 
approximation here:

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=462fd1da8ad245b2ad40093889016448



3) What is the maximum temperature required?


With the current resin we are using, the maximum curing temperature is 80 ° C. 


But we have used resins with a maximum curing temperature of 200 ° C.


4) What is the maximum rate of temperature rise per min or per hour?



Approximately, the temperature rise is usually 10 ° C / h


5) Will you be doing this work in Europe?   I need to know what type of power 
source you have available. Voltage and Amperage on the circuit you plan to use.



In Spain, the voltage is 220V with a frequency of 50Hz
From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx

Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:26:26 -0700
Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx





















Vicente,


 


To
attempt to answer your questions I need some information.



1) What is the weight of the heaviest item you envision heating?


 


2) What is the specific heat of the
materials used?
3)
What is the maximum temperature required?
4) What is the maximum rate of temperature
rise per min or per hour?


5) Will you be doing this work in
Europe?   I need to know what type of
power source you have available. Voltage and Amperage on the circuit you plan
to use.



You
gave 100 C as the max temperature required. I could not find any epoxy systems
that recommend such a low curing temperature.   


I
see 120-C to 180-C for Epoxy, 150-C to 180-C for Phenolics, and up to 290-C for
Polyimides 


 


For Epoxy I see 1-C / Min to
5-C / Min rise.   

This is 60-C to 300-C
per hour.   This is very different from
the example you gave.




example:

20 ° C to 100 ° C by increments of 20 ° C / h.

5 hours at 100 ° C.

100 ° C at 20 ° C with a decrease of 20 ° C.

Ideally develop a graphical interface to vary these parameters at will.


On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 2:47 AM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano 
<vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:






Hi Tim,
Unfortunately, we can not spend $ 180 on this system. On the other hand, given 
that the PID is the best option, we can opt for this. 
We have a PID we bought last year. PID is REX-C700. I also have a thermocouple 
type K 2 meters in length. So we can use this. 



Now the question is, what fan?, What resistance?, What power? 
Opinions?, Comments?

From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx



Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:04:29 -0700
Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx



Hi,

Depending on how you locate the heaters you may find that you'll have 
problems maintaining uniform temperature throughout the oven with your 
planned dimensions of 2 x0.5 x 0.5 m (Free).  Long oven shapes are more 
difficult to keep at a uniform temperature.   Long oven can be beneficial if 
you have a process that requires different temperatures along the route 
through the oven tunnel.   In a tunnel oven you are normally applying spot heat 
directly or via infrared.   


  


In a convection oven, like what you want, the heat is applied indirectly
 via the surrounding medium, air in this case.   Normally the heat 
source is not directly in the area with the product your heating. You want 
some heat barrier (wood, steel, or aluminum plate) between it & the product to 
avoid spot heating.   Larger ovens would use a supply fan with 
additional stirring fans to maintain uniform temperature.


  

Just for consideration.  This could all be inside your plywood & 
foam box. Heater section with stir fan(s) -> Aluminum plate barrier to 
direct heating -> oven space with stir fan(s).   Also you can often get lower 
cost fans if the motor is mounted outside the oven with only the blade in the 
heated space.



The control portion of your job requires nothing unique that requires 
new research or development efforts.   This is a straight forward case 
of application engineering for this cure oven.   



It
 seems to me that with the Arduino you're starting from scratch to 
re-develop the wheel.  This may be fun but is unnecessary with the 
abundance of low cost, off the shelf controllers, & software 
available.  Granted these weren't available 20-years ago but neither was
 the Arduino.   The design, testing,  & debugging of the software 
interface for the controller is where 
you'll be spending or wasting your time, depending upon the results.



The BCS-460 is a fully debugged Temperature Controller with Everything you want 
& much more. $180. 

Graphical, Web, & Smart Phone Software Interface.

8 Programmable outputs each with 8-stages. 

4 Sensor inputs

  You can pre-program & also interact with the settings on the fly.

  http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com

    Graphics Screenshots

http://www.embeddedcontrolconcepts.com/screenshots.html



The BCS-460 has 4 temp sensor inputs.   These are any ntc 10k ohm 
thermistor that you can get 100 for $8 plus shipping online or $0.75ea 
plus shipping from SparkFun.

For your curing operation you will want to know the temperature of the 
part, not just the oven temperature.   What is often done is to use a 
scrap or dummy piece of what you are curing & embed the sensor at 
the spot that the temperature is most critical to sense





BCS-460 Controller  Graphical, Web, & Smart Phone Software Interface
 (These will do what you ask of them. Don't get tripped-up by what 
they're called. Curing a composite part is less sophisticated than running a
 Brewery)



https://www.brewershardware.com/BCS-460-Brewery-Control-System.html

iPhone Interface Demo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r9hCVYSt2Y

Software Documentation

http://wiki.embeddedcc.com/index.php/Main_Page



Other Electronics starting around $15 (some of these have the ability to output 
to your computer some come with software)


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1311.R1.TR8.TRC1.A0.H1.Xpid+temp&_nkw=pid+temperature+controller&_sacat=0&_from=R40











On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 4:02 AM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano 
<vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:








Hi,
The main idea is to made a home oven from plywood and foam insulation. I 
planned dimensions of 2 x0.5 x 0.5 m (Free). With these dimensions we can cure 
any parts necessary for SS2S project. Recall that the largest piece so far is 
the nosecone (1507 mm). 




For smaller piece, and in order not to waste energy, I have thought the 
manufacture of a partition. 
You're right about the fans. I'm sure I can get some free fan oven, as well as 
resistence. 





The objective of using arduino, is the possibility of developing a graphical 
interface in which to determine the temperature rangesSubject: [SS2S-Main] Re: 
temperature controller with arduino





From: tyoung489@xxxxxxxxx
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:30:38 -0700
To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx






As much fun as it is to play with Arduinos it's a waste of time & 
money.Programmable PID Temperature Controller with single or dual sensors can 
be purchased on eBay for $15-$60. 





Where will you be placing the temperature sensor for the controller, embedded 
in the part or on the surface? Or are you going to try to run the oven at the 
desired temperature and guesstimate the time it takes for the part to 
equilibrate? I believe that would problematic and take longer to achieve your 
cure. I think that the manufacture of the composite materials should be able & 
more than willing to provide you with general propose curing methods & 
procedures. 





Are you building your own over with strip heaters, fans, etc? Or are you 
planing to interface the controller and fans to an existing oven?
For convection circulation you only need constant speed fans and if you plan on 
using axial flow computer type fans be aware most are rated to 60-C or  70-C.  




You can get 105-C rated fans but not from an old computer. sofasco.com is one 
of many places you can get them. You could use standard fans but it anyone's 
guess on how long they'll last.




If the parts are small you can buy small electric convection ovens sold as 
Toster/Pizza ovens.Check Walmart, Best Buy, Target, eBay, Amazon.

Sent by Timothy Young                iPad






On Jun 20, 2014, at 4:01 PM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano 
<vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:









Florin that's perfect. The system must be simple (as cheap as possible). With a 
source of heating (resistance) and several computer fans to circulate the air. 
Arduino must be able to control the temperature (using the resistance and the 
fan) according to a predefined schedule. A program is for example: 




20 ° C to 100 ° C by increments of 20 ° C / h. 5 hours at 100 ° C. 100 ° C at 
20 ° C with a decrease of 20 ° C. Ideally develop a graphical interface to vary 
these parameters at will.





Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 01:32:37 +0300
Subject: [SS2S-Main] Re: temperature controller with arduino
From: florin.mingireanu82@xxxxxxxxx





To: sugarshot@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

I can help with the temperature controller but I would need more precise 
specifications: like temperature range, control "band" etc.






On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Vicente Alvero Zambrano 
<vicente_alvero_14@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:




Hi,Anyone know how to make a temperature controller with arduino to make a home 
oven to cure composite? The idea is to monitor several computer fans and 
thermal resistances. Must be able to follow a cure profile and decreased with 
increases in temperature curing.





Any volunteer?
CheersVicente Alvero                                      


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