You want to talk about being thrown out of your home, Andy? How about all the Jews who were evicted from all the Arab nations? As soon as Israel was formed in 1948, Israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon. As a result of that war, about 700,000 Arab refugees were created (according to the United Nations Conciliation Commission for Palestine) and over 800,000 Jewish refugees were created. Those were Jews who fled or were expelled from Arab states after Israel was created. Pro-Palestinian sources call these people emigrants, rather than refugees. Pro-Israeli commentators hold that the Jewish Exodus, many of which communities had been established for more than 2000 years, came as a result of violence and persecution. I don't think you'll find too many Jews in Arab lands. What happened to their homes? Who moved in? If you were Jewish, would you be a tourist in an Arab country? Not if you were in your right mind. According to Wikipedia: The Balfour Declaration of 1917 asserted that the British Government "view[ed] with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people"..."it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". This declaration was supported by a number of other countries, including the United States, and became more important following World War I, when the League of Nations assigned the United Kingdom the Palestine mandate. Jewish immigration grew slowly in the 1920s; it increased substantially in the 1930s, due to political turmoil in Europe and Nazi persecution, until restrictions were imposed by UK in 1939. After the end of World War II, and the near-extermination of European Jews by the Nazis, international support for Jews seeking to settle in Palestine overcame British efforts to restrict immigration. Since the Holocaust, Judaism has become overwhelmingly Zionist.[citation needed] Today all of Reform, Conservative and Modern Orthodoxy is staunchly Zionist, and most Haredi Jews have changed from anti-Zionism (active opposition to Zionism) to non-Zionism (neutrality towards Zionism.) Secular non-Zionist Jewish movements are very rare today. [edit] After World War II Following World War II, the British announced their intention to withdraw from the British mandate of Palestine. The United Nations General Assembly proposed the partition of Palestine into two states, an Arab state and a Jewish state, with Jerusalem to be under United Nations administration. Most Jews in Palestine accepted the proposal, while most of the Arabs in Palestine rejected it. Violence between Arab and Jewish communities erupted almost immediately. Toward the end of the British mandate, the Jews planned to declare a separate state, a development the Arabs were determined to prevent. On May 14, 1948, the last British forces withdrew from Palestine, and the Jews, led by David Ben-Gurion, declared the creation of the State In answer to your harping on Jewish mistreatment of Arab-residents, Andy, just before Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon attacked the new state, Arab residents were told by these countries to get out of there because they planned to attack Israel. Many fled to avoid the war. That's very different story, Andy, than yours. There are refugees all over the Middle East. Jews that fled their homes in Arab lands. Arabs that fled their homes in Israel. Your picture is too lopsided. If you'll recall -- from a couple of paragraphs ago -- Palestine was partitioned by the UN into two states: one for Jews and one for Palestinians. Arabs rejected that -- and started a war with the Jews. That's the war that's still going on. Given the 22 Arab states that surround little Israel, how come Palestinians weren't welcomed into other countries? Jews expelled from Arab countries were welcomed into Israel. I think keeping the Palestinians huddled in misery served Arab interests. It kept anti-Israel anger alive -- as if little Israel were to blame. Stan Spiegel From: Andy Amago To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:04 AM Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: U.N. Special Committee on Palestine Stan, instead of getting emotional, why don't you just answer the question? Can it be that maybe you don't think someone has the right to throw someone out of their house and move in and leave the homeowner homeless? That's what Israel is founded on and people who are pissed off about it are the terrorists. If calling someone anti-semitic is your best argument well, then use it. As far as supporting theology, I don't support any theology in case you haven't noticed. There is a way out, in my opinion, but it would take honesty that people like you can't manage. On some level it boils down to threatening one with removal not of a homeland, but of a victim couched in arrogance mentality. ----- Original Message ----- From: Stan Spiegel To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: 7/26/2006 11:43:33 PM Subject: [lit-ideas] U.N. Special Committee on Palestine Andy - Listening to your "know-nothing" comments takes more patience than I'm willing to show. Have you completely forgotten everything about the founding of Israel, the role played by the UN and the British mandate? Andy says: If the Mexican Indians, say, came in and threw the Americans out of California, put them into tents and took their land for themselves, would you think the Mexican Indians (or whatever group) were entitled to that land? The Israelis threw people out of their homes and moved in. Does that not mean anything to you? Because the Americans dealt with the American Indians by slaughtering them and compounding them in the 19th century, that makes it okay for the Israelis to do it now? Your portrait -- and Omar's comment about how property is distributed in America -- is nonsense. It's because of Andy and Omar -- and the Islamist theology that can't stand sharing a little bit of land with Jews in the Middle East. The self-righteous garbage the two of you are spewing to hide your anti-semitism is too much. Stan Spiegel Portland, ME The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: Shortcut to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Special_Committee_on_Palestine Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.