[lit-ideas] Re: U.N. Special Committee on Palestine
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:46:46 -0400
It doesn't explain why the Jews and Arabs coexisted just fine before the
creation of Israel. Also, Israelis have an apartheid mentality, so they would
hold themselves superior to the Arabs no matter what. Also, if you took over
someone's home, I doubt that you would be too eager to be friends with that
person. What about the humanitarian crisis now? And you still haven't
answered the original question.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stan Spiegel
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 7/27/2006 12:37:58 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: U.N. Special Committee on Palestine
You want to talk about being thrown out of your home, Andy? How about all the
Jews who were evicted from all the Arab nations?
As soon as Israel was formed in 1948, Israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria,
Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon. As a result of that war, about 700,000 Arab refugees
were created (according to the United Nations Conciliation Commission for
Palestine) and over 800,000 Jewish refugees were created. Those were Jews who
fled or were expelled from Arab states after Israel was created.
Pro-Palestinian sources call these people emigrants, rather than refugees.
Pro-Israeli commentators hold that the Jewish Exodus, many of which communities
had been established for more than 2000 years, came as a result of violence and
persecution.
I don't think you'll find too many Jews in Arab lands. What happened to their
homes? Who moved in? If you were Jewish, would you be a tourist in an Arab
country? Not if you were in your right mind.
According to Wikipedia:
The Balfour Declaration of 1917 asserted that the British Government "view[ed]
with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish
people"..."it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may
prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in
Palestine". This declaration was supported by a number of other countries,
including the United States, and became more important following World War I,
when the League of Nations assigned the United Kingdom the Palestine mandate.
Jewish immigration grew slowly in the 1920s; it increased substantially in the
1930s, due to political turmoil in Europe and Nazi persecution, until
restrictions were imposed by UK in 1939. After the end of World War II, and the
near-extermination of European Jews by the Nazis, international support for
Jews seeking to settle in Palestine overcame British efforts to restrict
immigration.
Since the Holocaust, Judaism has become overwhelmingly Zionist.[citation
needed] Today all of Reform, Conservative and Modern Orthodoxy is staunchly
Zionist, and most Haredi Jews have changed from anti-Zionism (active opposition
to Zionism) to non-Zionism (neutrality towards Zionism.) Secular non-Zionist
Jewish movements are very rare today.
[edit]After World War II
Following World War II, the British announced their intention to withdraw from
the British mandate of Palestine. The United Nations General Assembly proposed
the partition of Palestine into two states, an Arab state and a Jewish state,
with Jerusalem to be under United Nations administration. Most Jews in
Palestine accepted the proposal, while most of the Arabs in Palestine rejected
it.
Violence between Arab and Jewish communities erupted almost immediately. Toward
the end of the British mandate, the Jews planned to declare a separate state, a
development the Arabs were determined to prevent. On May 14, 1948, the last
British forces withdrew from Palestine, and the Jews, led by David Ben-Gurion,
declared the creation of the State
In answer to your harping on Jewish mistreatment of Arab-residents, Andy, just
before Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon attacked the new state, Arab
residents were told by these countries to get out of there because they planned
to attack Israel. Many fled to avoid the war. That's very different story,
Andy, than yours.
There are refugees all over the Middle East. Jews that fled their homes in Arab
lands. Arabs that fled their homes in Israel. Your picture is too lopsided.
If you'll recall -- from a couple of paragraphs ago -- Palestine was
partitioned by the UN into two states: one for Jews and one for Palestinians.
Arabs rejected that -- and started a war with the Jews. That's the war that's
still going on.
Given the 22 Arab states that surround little Israel, how come Palestinians
weren't welcomed into other countries? Jews expelled from Arab countries were
welcomed into Israel.
I think keeping the Palestinians huddled in misery served Arab interests. It
kept anti-Israel anger alive -- as if little Israel were to blame.
Stan Spiegel
From: Andy Amago
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:04 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: U.N. Special Committee on Palestine
Stan, instead of getting emotional, why don't you just answer the question?
Can it be that maybe you don't think someone has the right to throw someone out
of their house and move in and leave the homeowner homeless? That's what
Israel is founded on and people who are pissed off about it are the terrorists.
If calling someone anti-semitic is your best argument well, then use it. As
far as supporting theology, I don't support any theology in case you haven't
noticed. There is a way out, in my opinion, but it would take honesty that
people like you can't manage. On some level it boils down to threatening one
with removal not of a homeland, but of a victim couched in arrogance mentality.
----- Original Message -----
From: Stan Spiegel
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 7/26/2006 11:43:33 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] U.N. Special Committee on Palestine
Andy -
Listening to your "know-nothing" comments takes more patience than I'm willing
to show. Have you completely forgotten everything about the founding of Israel,
the role played by the UN and the British mandate?
Andy says:
If the Mexican Indians, say, came in and threw the Americans out of California,
put them into tents and took their land for themselves, would you think the
Mexican Indians (or whatever group) were entitled to that land? The Israelis
threw people out of their homes and moved in. Does that not mean anything to
you? Because the Americans dealt with the American Indians by slaughtering
them and compounding them in the 19th century, that makes it okay for the
Israelis to do it now?
Your portrait -- and Omar's comment about how property is distributed in
America -- is nonsense. It's because of Andy and Omar -- and the Islamist
theology that can't stand sharing a little bit of land with Jews in the Middle
East. The self-righteous garbage the two of you are spewing to hide your
anti-semitism is too much.
Stan Spiegel
Portland, ME
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