[lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion Pretext UnderFire
- From: "Stan Spiegel" <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:43:26 -0400
Andy, have you forgotten what preceded the blockade? You seem to have no idea
of the connection between cause and effect. Have you really been reading the
newspaper -- or just reading Omar's emails?
Stan Spiegel
Portland
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Amago
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:34 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion Pretext UnderFire
Mike, you're entitled to your opinions. In the meantime, pick up a
newspaper. The Israelis are blockading the Palestinians economically and
through food. They're starving them to death, otherwise known as a
humanitarian crisis. That works for you, I guess. As far as the Mexicans
having a right to reclaim California, that works for you too as long as you
don't have to live it. You're a hypocrite, Mike, or you live by a 19th century
code that says, I want it, so it's mine, or everybody's always done it, so it's
okay. The Israelis are just as evil, just as good, just as human as anybody
else. They took somebody's land and people are annoyed about it and now it's
gotten a life of its own and they're all good and the people who lost their
land are all bad. I used to buy into this terrorist thing too about Hezbollah
(not talking about al Qaeda) until I learned something about this situation,
and I recently watched CNN Present's Inside Hezbollah, a surprisingly
sympathetic portrait from not exactly a supporter of Hezbollah. They help
their people rebuild and get them food and water, so of course they're going to
be popular. In the meantime, Mike, what's your answer? Do you think someone
has the right to throw someone out of their home and move in and leave the
homeowner homeless? We know the Americans did that to the Indians. Do you
consider that precedent so continued expropriation on those grounds acceptable?
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Geary
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: 7/27/2006 12:13:54 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion Pretext UnderFire
AA:
> Except that Israel's moral standing is shaky.
Less so than Hezbollah's?
>It would be like saying the
> Mexicans have a moral right to take over California.
They might well have the moral right, in fact I would suggest that they do,
but that means nothing in the real world.
> That's what this is
> based in, even if the origins are forgotten.
No, it's not. Israel was a creation of the United Nations in 1948. For
the most part the Arab populations of the Middle East rejected that
recognition, but most of the world didn't. Israel's legitimacy as a nation is
an accepted fact by the international community regardless of what some
individual nations might hold.
> My suggestion would be for
> Israel to say, look, we panicked after WWII and didn't act out of good
> judgment.
Perhaps the United Nations should, but why should Israel?
> Instead, they keep thinking that they'll find peace at the end
> of a gun.
As opposed to whom? Name a nation who doesn't hold to that belief. Japan?
Hmmm. Maybe now. And of course there's Gandhi and Martin Luther King, not
countries really, but enormously influential individuals, but in the end, both
were assassinated by -- you guessed it -- gunmen. That doesn't mean that they
were wrong, just a large footnote tacked to their CV's. That's not to say that
I too haven't wondered whatever became of all that Jewish genius -- how did
Israel manage to get locked into this self-defeating war of attrition, this
mentality of Third Reich militarism, but that's my perspective, they probably
don't see it that way.
> That's what I said once before,
> imagine if Israel offered to feed the hungry children. Instead, they
> destroy a country. That's not moral standing.
Is blowing up innocent Israelis "moral standing?" What the fuck are you
talking about? Why don't the Arab nations feed the hungry children? God knows
they've got goopoohs of money. No one is innocent here. There are no good
guys, no bad guys, just a bunch of very stupid, stupid, stupid guys, sicut erat
in principio, et nunc et semper et in secula seculorum. Amen.
I haven't read the vast majority of the posts on this thread because I
think everyone on this list is pretty much as stupid as I am about the Middle
East. I do not trust our Government in its policies, I don't trust Israel or
any of the Middle East participants whatsoever. And what does it matter what I
think anyway? Or any of us? Do you think the Bush apparatchiks read us? Ha!
They don't even read themselves, each knows and they'll play their death games
until they tire of them. You can thank George Bush for this. Thank him for
doing nothing to bring peace to the Middle East since he's been in office.
Mike Geary
Memphis
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