[lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion Pretext UnderFire
- From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2006 20:22:37 -0700 (PDT)
This seems to me to phrase the issue in extremely
demagogical terms. It's not so much about the
intrinsic worth of Israel or Israelis (although this
is not beyond being questioned) as about rights. I
happen to think that I am a worthy person, at the very
least worthy of owning a house, but it doesn't follow
from that that I have the right to evict my neighbour
from the house he lived in for decades. Of course, I
realize that this point is probably impossible to
understand, especially for someone living in the US
where property is commonly distributed acording to
moral worth of individuals, as we all know.
O.K.
--- JimKandJulieB@xxxxxxx wrote:
> So you do not believe that the Israelis have a right
> to a little peace of
> land they can call their own country? You would see
> the constructive solution
> to have all the Israelis relocate to foreign
> countries so that little tiny
> bit of land be conceded to whomever wants it and has
> the power to "own" it?
> You see Israel as not worthy of being a State, a
> Country, of its own?
>
> Julie Krueger
> wondering why the state of Israel is such an
> abomination to the rest of the
> world.
>
> ========Original Message======== Subj:
> [lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion
> Pretext UnderFire Date: 7/26/06 9:31:24 P.M.
> Central Daylight Time From:
> _aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (mailto:aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx)
> To:
> _lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> (mailto:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) Sent on:
> Except that Israel's moral standing is shaky. It
> would be like saying the
> Mexicans have a moral right to take over
> California. That's what this is
> based in, even if the origins are forgotten. My
> suggestion would be for
> Israel to say, look, we panicked after WWII and
> didn't act out of good
> judgment. Can we now make reparations and coexist
> somehow and improve both
> our lives. Instead, they keep thinking that
> they'll find peace at the end
> of a gun. It's a contradiction in terms. That's
> what I said once before,
> imagine if Israel offered to feed the hungry
> children. Instead, they
> destroy a country. That's not moral standing.
> Even so, I sure hope the
> militants don't start streaming into Lebanon, what's
> left of it.
>
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: John Wager <john.wager1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Date: 7/26/2006 1:43:03 PM
> > Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion
> Pretext UnderFire
> >
> > Stan Spiegel wrote:
> >
> > > Omar conveniently cites:
> > > "Israeli forces have gone on to kill over 370
> innocent Lebanese
> civilians
> > > (compared to 34 killed on Israel's side) while
> > > displacing hundreds of thousands more."
> > >
> > > As Omar knows, Hezbollah has enmeshed itself
> into the civilian
> > > structure of Lebanese life: hides guns and all
> sorts of assault
> > > weapons in children's bedrooms and apartment
> houses. It is Hezbollah
> > > that recognizes no limits -- and to fight
> Hezbollah it becomes very
> > > difficult without hurting some civilians.
> >
> > Perhaps the point was that it was both immoral AND
> self-destructive to
> > bomb so many Hezbollah targets when they were so
> closely embedded in the
> > civilian population. Back in the Vietnam war, a
> general is reported to
> > have said "We had to destroy the village in order
> to save it." The
> > calculus of human death and suffering is never
> easy to make, but I
> > personally think Israel fell into a Hezbollah
> trap in deciding to place
> > the amount of civilian suffering at so low a
> priority. Yes Israel needs
> > to reduce the danger to its citizens, but doing
> so in a way that
> > temporarily relieves the number of rockets fired
> while increasing the
> > number of volunteer rocket firers seems
> counter-productive. The U.S.
> > may be slowly learning this lesson in Iraq--It
> does no good to eliminate
> > a "threat" if you do so in a way that increases
> the number of people who
> > will threaten you in the future as a result.
> >
> > Israel seems to have decided that just bombing
> the targets from the air
> > was not enough to stop the firings, and that a
> certain amount of ground
> > action is also needed. Someone in the Israeli air
> force probably was
> > arguing for using FEWER bombs precisely because
> they would probably not
> > work, and somebody else in Israel decided that
> despite the lack of
> > chance for success, the number of civilian
> casualties should NOT prevent
> > the bombing from taking place. This seems both
> immoral and
> > counter-productive to Israel's long-term
> security. I suspect the reason
> > that unnamed Israeli made the decision to bomb
> those targets was the
> > same reason American military planners do the
> same thing--to avoid
> > future military casualties in a ground operation.
> But again, like the
> > U.S., Israel may (unfortunately) discover that
> their actions have
> > produced more hostility and more danger to the
> troops they sent in that
> > those troops would have been subject to if Israel
> had not been so
> > cavalier about its bombing targets.
> >
> >
> > --
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > "Never attribute to malice that which can be
> > explained by incompetence and ignorance."
> > -------------------------------------------------
> > John Wager john.wager1@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > Lisle, IL, USA
> >
> >
> >
>
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