[lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion Pretext UnderFire

  • From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 06:03:22 -0700 (PDT)


The economic blockade of the Palestinians has been
going on since the election. A number of articles have
been posted here that made this point clearly and
anyone who still continues to ignore it is not arguing
in good faith.

Also, your previous posts recicle some of the old
Zionist lies about the founding of Israel - that the
expulsion of the Palestinians was the result of the
Arab attack, that the Palestinians left voluntarily
etc. - that have long been refuted even by Israeli
historians. You are frequently given to accusing
others but it is you who is increasingly coming out as
either ignorant or dishonest, or both.


--- Stan Spiegel <writeforu2@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Andy, have you forgotten what preceded the blockade?
> You seem to have no idea of the connection between
> cause and effect. Have you really been reading the
> newspaper -- or just reading Omar's emails?
> Stan Spiegel
> Portland
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: Andy Amago 
>   To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
>   Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:34 AM
>   Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion Pretext
> UnderFire
>   Mike, you're entitled to your opinions.  In the
> meantime, pick up a newspaper.  The Israelis are
> blockading the Palestinians economically and through
> food.   They're starving them to death, otherwise
> known as a humanitarian crisis.  That works for you,
> I guess.  As far as the Mexicans having a right to
> reclaim California, that works for you too as long
> as you don't have to live it.  You're a hypocrite,
> Mike, or you live by a 19th century code that says,
> I want it, so it's mine, or everybody's always done
> it, so it's okay.  The Israelis are just as evil,
> just as good, just as human as anybody else.  They
> took somebody's land and people are annoyed about it
> and now it's gotten a life of its own and they're
> all good and the people who lost their land are all
> bad.  I used to buy into this terrorist thing too
> about Hezbollah (not talking about al Qaeda) until I
> learned something about this situation, and I
> recently watched CNN Present's Inside Hezbollah, a
> surprisingly sympathetic portrait from not exactly a
> supporter of Hezbollah.  They help their people
> rebuild and get them food and water, so of course
> they're going to be popular.  In the meantime, Mike,
> what's your answer?  Do you think someone has the
> right to throw someone out of their home and move in
> and leave the homeowner homeless?  We know the
> Americans did that to the Indians.  Do you consider
> that precedent so continued expropriation on those
> grounds acceptable?
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>     From: Mike Geary 
>     To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>     Sent: 7/27/2006 12:13:54 AM 
>     Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion
> Pretext UnderFire
>     AA:
>     > Except that Israel's moral standing is shaky. 
>     Less so than Hezbollah's?
>     >It would be like saying the
>     > Mexicans have a moral right to take over
> California.
>     They might well have the moral right, in fact I
> would suggest that they do, but that means nothing
> in the real world.
>     > That's what this is
>     > based in, even if the origins are forgotten.
>     No, it's not.  Israel was a creation of the
> United Nations in 1948.  For the most part the Arab
> populations of the Middle East rejected that
> recognition, but most of the world didn't.  Israel's
> legitimacy as a nation is an accepted fact by the
> international community regardless of what some
> individual nations might hold.
>     > My suggestion would be for
>     > Israel to say, look, we panicked after WWII
> and didn't act out of good
>     > judgment.
>     Perhaps the United Nations should, but why
> should Israel?   
>     > Instead, they keep thinking that they'll find
> peace at the end
>     > of a gun.
>     As opposed to whom?  Name a nation who doesn't
> hold to that belief.  Japan?  Hmmm.  Maybe now.  And
> of course there's Gandhi and  Martin Luther King,
> not countries really, but enormously influential
> individuals, but in the end,  both were assassinated
> by -- you guessed it -- gunmen.  That doesn't mean
> that they were wrong, just a large footnote tacked
> to their CV's. That's not to say that I too haven't
> wondered whatever became of all that Jewish genius
> -- how did Israel manage to get locked into this
> self-defeating war of attrition, this mentality of
> Third Reich militarism, but that's my perspective,
> they probably don't see it that way. 
>     > That's what I said once before,
>     > imagine if Israel offered to feed the hungry
> children.  Instead, they
>     > destroy a country.  That's not moral standing.
>     Is blowing up innocent Israelis "moral
> standing?"  What the fuck are you talking about? 
> Why don't the Arab nations feed the hungry children?
>  God knows they've got goopoohs of money.  No one is
> innocent here.  There are no good guys, no bad guys,
> just a bunch of very stupid, stupid, stupid guys,
> sicut erat in principio, et nunc et semper et in
> secula seculorum. Amen.   
>     I haven't read the vast majority of the posts on
> this thread because I think everyone on this list is
> pretty much as stupid as I am about the Middle East.
>  I do not trust our Government in its policies, I
> don't trust Israel or any of the Middle East
> participants whatsoever.  And what does it matter
> what I think anyway?  Or any of us? Do you think the
> Bush apparatchiks read us?  Ha!  They don't even
> read themselves, each knows and they'll play their
> death games until they tire of them.  You can thank
> George Bush for this.  Thank him for doing nothing
> to bring peace to the Middle East since he's been in
> office.
>     Mike Geary
>     Memphis  

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