[lit-ideas] Re: Israel's Invasion Pretext UnderFire

  • From: Paul Stone <pas@xxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:23:55 -0400


 >For Paul, this would be a ridiculous discussion if we weren't literally
> >staring into the
> >face of WWIII.  Iran aligning with Russia, possibly China; Israel with

AA: Okay, careful reader.  I didn't say it was the start of it.  I said we're
staring into the face of it and our politicians are pushing for it.

Actually you said "LITERALLY" which indicates that you are serious that [to paraphrase Churchill] "this is not the beginning, it's not even beginning of the beginning, but is perhaps the start of the beginning of the beginning".


>This  actually maybe a war that is manufactured by the press.

AA: Yeah, all those pictures of that rubble are an art director's dream.

My point is that there's always rubble to show. They just choose to show it sometimes and not others.


>How is this conflagration any different than all the others? Israel's
> been in Beirut for 28 years. Big deal. They are protecting themselves.

Or they're the aggressor, depending on perspective. See the problem?

Yes I do and Andy, I almost completely agree with your side on these issues, except for the fact that you seem to give Israel no credit for anything. That's where we diverge.


> Now I can hear you saying "What, you are more interested in a bike race
> than a 'war'?!?" Basically, yeah, I am. I'm sick of hearing about the
> Middle East. It IS ridiculous and I DON'T care about it.

If you sent 26 messages a day on this race, I wouldn't even notice let
alone care.  What part of delete don't people understand?

The point is... I wouldn't send 26 posts on a bike race to Lit-Ideas.

> I'm more concerned with the war at home. It's much more important to me. Just trying to
exist is hard enough, let alone trying to deal with all these religious maniacs
> around the world -- Bush included.
>
AA:I don't know what war you're referring to, but in issues we've talked
about, you're solidly on the side of pharma and the rest of it.

I'm not solidly on the side of pharma. You have tragically misread me once or twice and perpetuated that fallacy. Anyway, as far as "the war at home" remark goes, I'm much to busy with my life HERE, 10,000 miles from THERE and it's hard enough just complaining to company x to give me straight service that I paid for. It's like Bush is completely ignoring the citizens because of "foreign policy" and the "war on terra" to care about you guys. Everybody gets so wrapped up in world events that they sometimes forget that they are part of the world. And as part of world, we have to keep our part nice, so that the rest might say "oh, that's how it's done". I think it's called leading by example or something. But, I think that the example is completely lost on the people from that area. So... I don't even bother holding out hope. Peaceful co-existence just doesn't even seem like an option.


> But... The Palestinians have done nothing but scratch and claw and throw
> stones for 50 years instead of actually trying to DO something to further
> their position in the world. They are monolithically tunnel-visioned.
>
What do you expect them to do?

ANYTHING except arm themselves to the teeth and attack. How about building an infrastructure? How about inventing something? How about get on with life and quit the hating?


  Israel is financed by the U.S.  They have
the military, etc.  The Palestinians have nothing.

WHY NOT?

If Iran subsidizes them then gosh, they're looking for war.

If Iran subsidizes them with weapons? Of course. I can't see people complaining about feeding some people.


If they're on their own, then they're monolithic rock throwers. Which one is it?

Well most people graduate from throwing rocks. For some reason a whole lot of people haven't.


On the world stage, there is almost NOTHING good
> about it happening -- unless of course you count the US's strategic
> alliance with them to "maintain" a position in the M.E. And, well, that's
> only good for US miliatary strategists.

AA: Maybe. Iraq didn't turn didn't out so well, did it?

Well that's because as Israel already exists, the US can fool us into believing that they are being altruistic in 'preserving democracy' in the middle east when giving disproportionate aid to such an OBVIOUSLY strategic location. Whereas with Iraq, they just can't sell the notion of "introducing democracy". The Iraqis obviously don't want democracy, or perhaps just can't make it work.


> But, both sides are obviously to blame. The theocracies are to blame for
> being vicious terrorists who have no value in life and are immersed in a
> stone-age mentality out of which nothing [apparently] can drag them.

It was peaceful until ... see other posts.

I agree. Another perhaps incendiary thing I wrote but didn't send was this:

I have a straight-forward question and it's honest. I'm not being sarcastic. I was not alive prior to 1966, so I am not really intimate with pre-world-war II history. Were there Arab Terrorists before 1947? In fact was there even a notion of 'terrorist' before the late '60s?Can anyone point to a singular even that may have sparked the rise of Terrorism?

On top of which we invaded a country and expected to be loved. Any stone age mentality in that you
think? For that matter, any mentality at all?

I've got a sore neck from this segue. To which situation does this refer?

No, there is a middle way, but people have to get down from their high
horses and stop convincing themselves that military solutions are the only
solutions.

I never said military solutions. There is NO solution of any kind with the sides as they are.


> Nah... unlike some third persons, I read everything. Then at least I know
> what the hell I'm talking about when I talk about it.
>
Sniping at a third person invalidates any reading.  It also invalidates the
writing and the writer.  That is not civilization at its finest.

Pot... Kettle.


> Of if you only could resist

AA:You don't say resist what.  Okay, resist replying to your posts.  If you
insist.

I don't insist you resist. I insist that you cannot desist.

p

##########
Paul Stone
pas@xxxxxxxx
Kingsville, ON, Canada


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