[lit-ideas] Re: FW: Re: ] Hillary Clinton Speaks Up for israel at U.N.Rally

  • From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 07:39:32 -0700 (PDT)


Since you have decided to oblige us with one of your
grossly simplified historical narratives, I will try
to return the favour the best I can. Islam engaged in
military conquest in the Middle Ages, as did
Christianity. Islam's conquests have generally proved
more stable (with some exceptions like Spain) than
those of the Crusaders, for reasons having to do with
better administration, more advanced civilization and
such. Islam has not historically been a more
militarized religion than Christianity, and there are
good grounds to think that it has been less so in the
last several centuries.

As for Jews, let's remember that they were expelled by
the Roman Empire originally, later most European
states have tried to expel or eradicate them at some
time or other. Their position in Islamic lands, while
not perfect, was better by far than anything they had
in Europe at the time. They were tolerated. When the
Jews arrived to Palestine, they didn't return the
favour. Also, the Jews did not simply "flea" Europe to
establish a state in Palestine, but they were planted
there by the British Empire.

Finally, as to muscling into a place where one doesn't
belong, the Americans are probably the last nation on
Earth that is entitled to find irony in that.


--- Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I don't know if you're anti-Semitic, Irene, but you
> have the
> Leftist/Islamist anti-Semitic party line down pat,
> insulting and misinformed
> to a tee.  Islam is the force that muscled its way
> throughout the world and
> pushed their militaristic religion as far as they
> could.  They were finally
> turned back in such places as Spain.  They didn't
> eradicate all the people
> they conquered.  For example they let the Jews live
> in their own land as
> long as they submitted as second class citizens.  
> Years later Old Europe, much of it, tried to
> eradicate the Jews living
> there; so many Jews fled to their original homeland.
>  Old Europe now calls
> that muscling into a place they don't belong.  How
> ironic for
> Islamist-sympathizers to say that.
> Lawrence
>   _____  
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Andy Amago
> Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2006 6:32 AM
> To: lit-ideas
> Subject: [lit-ideas] FW: Re: ] Hillary Clinton
> Speaks Up for israel at
> U.N.Rally
> I guess it would be like the Mexicans coming here
> illegally, taking over
> California at gunpoint and telling the people in
> California they can now
> clear the land of snakes for them while they put
> them into tents to live.
> The Mexicans were there before the Americans,
> correct?  They have a right to
> do that, correct?
> I have to say I tend to agree.  Those poor people in
> Lebanon.  They didn't
> even support Hezbollah (according to Christiane
> Amanpour anyway) but now
> things may be changing.  I had my hopes pinned on
> Hillary, but she's for
> amnesty, and now to say that she's on one side or
> the other is to exclude
> the middle ground of diplomacy.  Bush has done zero
> negotiation throughout
> his entire presidency.  He swaggers and acts
> imperiously, talks down to
> countries like Iran, alienates everyone, negotiates
> at gunpoint.  Even Putin
> made a joke about Bush wanting to democratize Russia
> the way he democratized
> Iraq.  Bush & Co., especially Cheney, want to
> destroy democracy at home
> while spreading it through invasion overseas.  
> I heard a story on Lou Dobbs that the Israeli
> invasion is galvanizing the
> jihad movement.  Surprise, right?  The Israelis
> learned nothing from the
> Iraq invasion, and even sadder, neither did Bush. 
> Even if they destroy
> Hezbollah, they can't destroy Iran, and if they
> uproot the new democracy in
> Lebanon, they'll leave a vacuum.  Israel does have
> the tacit approval of
> Arab nations who are afraid of the religious
> fundamentalists, but even that
> speaks to the need for working with, not against.  
> The Israelis usurped that area originally (yes,
> Stan, they did), that's why
> this conflict is so intractable.  They set the tone
> for all this and they've
> spent 60 years fighting for their 'right' to live in
> a place they muscled
> their way into.  Of course they'll never see their
> part in any of this and
> it will just get worse and worse into eternity. 
> Okay, Stan, tell me I'm
> anti-Semitic and be done with it.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: joseph <mailto:wells001@xxxxxxxxxxxx>  
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: 7/18/2006 1:53:29 AM 
> Subject: [lit-ideas] ] Hillary Clinton Speaks Up for
> israel at U.N.Rally
>  i wonder would she have said that if she had known
> people personally who
> had moved to Lebanon, like my Ex wife, for example,
> and the *ahem*
> ---nevermind, they are bombing the place ....would
> she have said , do what
> you must do???
>     lets all pray that no one bombs where you live
> and have someone said,
> hey it's cool, Keep in mind, i wished that President
> Clinton could have
> stayed in office, then we would not have had to
> plunged our country into the
> bushes...
>      Joseph wells

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