[lit-ideas] Re: FW: Re: ] Hillary Clinton Speaks Up for israel at U.N.Rally
- From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 13:05:10 -0700 (PDT)
--- Phil Enns <phil.enns@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Again, the nonsense is yours. I clearly wrote that
> the authority of the
> state lies with the particular form under which
> people order themselves
> under government. Obviously, except to Omar, this
> means that people can
> alter the particular form of government.
*No, this is not obvious. If the authority of state is
reducible to a particular form of government, then
it's not clear how the government can be changed
without ruining the state authority. This is arguably
what happened in states like the USSR or the former
Yugoslavia. While we would all probably prefer to see
different outcomes, I don't see how Phil's formulation
permits them.
Also, how "people order themselves" is not necessarily
tantamount to moral justification for a state. This is
particularly evident in case of states like Israel or
the US or Canada where the people who "order
themselves" got there by expelling or exterminating or
subjugating other peoples. The populations may be
allowed to make democratic choices, but those
populations were pre-selected on some other principle.
> I understand why Omar might be interested in a
> free-floating
> understanding of the authority of the state, free
> from all the
> difficulties of material conditions, since it
> permits the ideological
> critique that informs so much of his commentary on
> Israel and the U.S.
> Sadly, most of those he so boldly defends, including
> the Palestinians
> and Iraqis, are hardly served by such critique.
*I take it that not all of Phil's comments here are
meant to advance the political interests of Canadians
or Americans or Israelis. I wish that he would give me
credit of not assuming that all of my comments are
meant to advance the political interests of
Palestinians or Iraqis, or other groups.
> They have to deal with
> the realities of conflicting interests competing for
> government.
*Yes they do. But the internal political arrangements
of the Palestinians or Iraqis or other Arab nations
have little to do with the legitimacy of their
national interests. Even if my neighbour is a
drunkard, that doesn't mean that I have the right to
shit in his yard.
O.K.
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