[webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that formal testing is important???

  • From: AKF <outdoorminer2002@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 08:10:11 -0700 (PDT)

Indeed!

This attitude - especially at the agency level has hardly
changed from the earliest days of the gold rush. I was at two
major traditional agencies and freelanced at another big
consultancy and my experiences were nearly identical in each org
despite the fresh faces and growing maturity of the industry.

Chris made an interesting point about adapting software
development principles for web shops:

My last f/t experience was at an entertainment software startup.
It was rough going at times but we did succeed in delivering
product consistently on-time and within quality standards
because we used proven software company techniques of working
cohesively as a team.

Furthermore, as a group manager/lead, I was actually empowered
to say NO (a magic word!) to Marketing if I could justify my
reasons - i.e. too little time, might compromise the product,
etc.

I said "no" or "maybe" more often than not, which was good
because I under-promised but over-delivered. Not only did this
allow me to better manage everyone's expectations but it made
everyone within the org look good because we didn't over-promise
users, partners, or clients - something that many ad agencies
have yet to learn on the interactive end of things.




--- Chris Toliver <christ@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> AFK,
> 
> I couldn't agree with you more. I have been a PM and Producer
> for some 4 =
> years at three New York firms. My experience mirrors yours in
> every way. =
> And the real stinger is, the bigger and more "corporate" the
> agency is, =
> the worse it gets.
> 
> I remember being in meeting at a certain New York Web shop
> (closely =
> connected to it's Fortune 500 Ad Agency parent) and telling
> everyone =
> that unless the company changed it productions guidelines and
> procedures =
> that we would never make any money. A few months ago Fuel
> North America =
> merged with several other dying web shops and is still in the
> red.=20
> 
> The bottom line is that until Advertising starts to treat
> Enterprise =
> Level Web Development w/ the seriousness that is given
> software =
> development, PM and Production w/ have very little say in how
> the =
> process works.
> 
> Ad Agencies are a service oriented business. This is why
> Account =
> continues to rule the roost.
> 
> Just my two cents.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: AKF [mailto:outdoorminer2002@xxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 10:12 AM
> To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that
> formal
> testing is important???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's an excercise in futility! The only way for an
> organization
> to change its culture and mentality in this regard is to
> rebuild
> it completely from scratch at the highest levels and not just
> at
> the PM or Exec Producer level.
> 
> In fact, I know of an Exec Producer now who fights constant
> battles with Account over issues I and others have described.
> 
> Unfortunately, PMs withing non-IT centric organizations are
> and
> will probably always be 2nd class citizens.
> 
> Short of offing Account people (which won't change anything
> but
> will make one feel slightly better), you need to get one or
> more
> folks at the Director or VP level who will champion us and our
> role.
> 
> Project fuck ups due to the disconnect between Account and PM
> rarely go through post-mortems. And, when they do, no one is
> blamed or the appropriate action(s) aren't taken anyway.
> 
> Until upper management fully understands the evils of having
> Account completely run the show or the importance of PMs
> within
> the org, these issues will continue to plague the industry..or
> what's  left of it.
> 
> Sorry to sound so negative but I've been doing this stuff for
> nearly 7 years and little has changed since 1995 despite my
> constant railings against the machine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- m o r r y <morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >=20
> > Ok so we all recognize that this is a huge problem in
> working
> > in agency's.
> > Now the big questions is if there's something we can do
> about
> > it.  One
> > person working for one company going against the whole AE
> > establishment is
> > hardly the answer. But is there anything we as a group could
> > do to change
> > the mindset? Perhaps one thing we as the Web
> Producers/Project
> > Mangers
> > Organization could do is to establish "best practices" or
> some
> > industy
> > standards.  When WPO was started it was primarily for this
> > very reason.
> > Right now there are lots of orgs for designers, for
> > programmers, for IA's
> > but there was nothing to speak of for web /digital pm's.
> >=20
> > Thought's anyone?
> >=20
> > Morry
> >=20
> >
> 
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
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