[webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that formal testing is important???

There is a lot of truth to this. One instance where I saw success was with a
very open and intelligent VP.  I was to have a meeting with two VP's ont he
account and I decided I would use that time to introduce them to the team.
I walked in to the meeting with an IA, a Designer, a Front End programmer
and a Back End programmer. I also had a bunch of sample documents like site
maps and such to show them. By the end of the meeting the account side
confessed  they didn't have any clue this much was involved and they thought
the best thing was for us to deal directly with the client. This was exactly
what I was trying to accomplish by bringing everybody in. Then later in the
project they told me that as long as I copied them on documents, e-mails
etc. they didn't even mind if they weren't involved in client calls. It took
a lot of work on my part and as Ruth said it was selling internally.
Unfortunately this was the exception because I had a captive and willing
audience.

Morry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ruth Kaufman" <ruth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, June 28, 2002 10:24 AM
Subject: [webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that formal testing
is important???


>
> It seems clear to me that PM's/Producers need to be involved up
> front, much like sales engineers. It's probably a combination of org
> structure and process, which are influenced by culture (and vice
> versa?). AE's are often not required to get buy-in from PM's, and
> PM's often don't know enough about the client in order to make a
> meaningful contribution or recommendation up front, even if they
> wanted to. It's more of a hand-off process. I'm not that experienced
> in the agency environment, but my company was once engaged with a
> consulting firm by way of a letter of intent. Then there was a more
> detailed needs analysis, then a formal agreement. This is just a
> hunch, but I believe that client-side people are more likely to
> budget more time and money to tech stuff like QA if they see a
> presentation from a tech person, as opposed to an AE. The tech person
> isn't making commission and has a different kind of credibility.
> Marketing people can be easily wooed by smart, personable techies who
> also get their business objectives and get along with their own PM's.
>
> So the challenge is to make the tech organization into a sales
> organization so there's more fluidity and cooperation between the two
> "sides". It may feel "futile", but it's something that can happen the
> techies offering the AE's more service even before offering the
> clients more service. Show them how you can help them win more
> business and influence clients. It can't be imposed from the
> top-down, and it probably can't be achieved with direct
> confrontation. Again, it's a sales thing -- sell the benefits of the
> situation you want. If selling it in post-mortems doesn't work, then
> empathizing over a beer might be more productive.
>
> Ruth
>
>
> >Ok so we all recognize that this is a huge problem in working in
agency's.
> >Now the big questions is if there's something we can do about it.  One
> >person working for one company going against the whole AE establishment
is
> >hardly the answer. But is there anything we as a group could do to change
> >the mindset? Perhaps one thing we as the Web Producers/Project Mangers
> >Organization could do is to establish "best practices" or some industy
> >standards.  When WPO was started it was primarily for this very reason.
> >Right now there are lots of orgs for designers, for programmers, for IA's
> >but there was nothing to speak of for web /digital pm's.
> >
> >Thought's anyone?
> >
> >Morry
> >
> >
> >>  I can assure you, it is not. I've seen exactly the same scenario as
Ari is
> >>  describing happen over and over and over again. In my experience, PMs
were
> >>  often much more junior (both in terms of age and in the org chart)
than
> >the
> >>  account manager, who would pressure to cut corners. The parts that got
> >>  squeezed most often were testing and HTML production (design on the
other
> >>  hand could drag on for months while the art directors examined their
> >navels
> >>  waiting for "inspiration" to hit).
> >>
> >>  "Testing? We don't need to schedule more than a few days. We can
always
> >fix
> >>  the problems after launch."
> >>
> >>  Of course, you know what happens then: the client is upset that they
got a
> >>  crappy product, and then the account manager runs to the PM to scream
> >bloody
> >>  murder about it, when it's their own damn fault in the first place.
> >>
> >>  Feh.
> >>
> >>  --
> >>  Maia
> >>
> >>
__________________________________________________________________________
> >>  To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to
> >webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >>  To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular commands
> >including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation  visit
> >www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at the
website.
> >>
> >>  Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
> >To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject
> >to webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular
> >commands including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation
> >visit  www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at
> >the website.
> >
> >Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me, morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> --
> ..............................................................
> Ruth Kaufman
> 212.828.6386 (home)
> 917.623.7423 (mobile)
> ruth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://ruthkaufman.com
> ..............................................................
> __________________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to
webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular commands
including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation  visit
www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at the website.
>
> Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me, morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>

__________________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to 
webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular commands 
including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation  visit  
www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at the website.

Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me, morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Other related posts: