[webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that formal testing is important???
- From: AKF <outdoorminer2002@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 07:36:38 -0700 (PDT)
Again, these are keen observations but it's perhaps an
oversimplication of the issue.
Some companies, namely ad agencies have been traditionally
account driven. They run the show in TV, print, outdoor, etc. so
why shouldn't they also drive things in interactive - despite
the innately more complex character of interactive and tech
projects.
A similar situation exists at large media companies. I worked
for a large entertainment "club" that sold merchandise direct to
the consumer. They had been essentially operating the same way
for the last 38 years and were very resistant to changing their
inefficient process when it came to their web site because their
way of doing things worked for other media like direct mail and
TV.
It really boils down to a question of internal politics and
management having the forsight to let the experts do what they
need to do rather than trying to work within a very restrictive
environment that doesn't scale well to the special needs of IT
and new media.
--- Ruth Kaufman <ruth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> It seems clear to me that PM's/Producers need to be involved
> up
> front, much like sales engineers. It's probably a combination
> of org
> structure and process, which are influenced by culture (and
> vice
> versa?). AE's are often not required to get buy-in from PM's,
> and
> PM's often don't know enough about the client in order to make
> a
> meaningful contribution or recommendation up front, even if
> they
> wanted to. It's more of a hand-off process. I'm not that
> experienced
> in the agency environment, but my company was once engaged
> with a
> consulting firm by way of a letter of intent. Then there was a
> more
> detailed needs analysis, then a formal agreement. This is just
> a
> hunch, but I believe that client-side people are more likely
> to
> budget more time and money to tech stuff like QA if they see a
>
> presentation from a tech person, as opposed to an AE. The tech
> person
> isn't making commission and has a different kind of
> credibility.
> Marketing people can be easily wooed by smart, personable
> techies who
> also get their business objectives and get along with their
> own PM's.
>
> So the challenge is to make the tech organization into a sales
>
> organization so there's more fluidity and cooperation between
> the two
> "sides". It may feel "futile", but it's something that can
> happen the
> techies offering the AE's more service even before offering
> the
> clients more service. Show them how you can help them win more
>
> business and influence clients. It can't be imposed from the
> top-down, and it probably can't be achieved with direct
> confrontation. Again, it's a sales thing -- sell the benefits
> of the
> situation you want. If selling it in post-mortems doesn't
> work, then
> empathizing over a beer might be more productive.
>
> Ruth
>
>
> >Ok so we all recognize that this is a huge problem in working
> in agency's.
> >Now the big questions is if there's something we can do about
> it. One
> >person working for one company going against the whole AE
> establishment is
> >hardly the answer. But is there anything we as a group could
> do to change
> >the mindset? Perhaps one thing we as the Web
> Producers/Project Mangers
> >Organization could do is to establish "best practices" or
> some industy
> >standards. When WPO was started it was primarily for this
> very reason.
> >Right now there are lots of orgs for designers, for
> programmers, for IA's
> >but there was nothing to speak of for web /digital pm's.
> >
> >Thought's anyone?
> >
> >Morry
> >
> >
> >> I can assure you, it is not. I've seen exactly the same
> scenario as Ari is
> >> describing happen over and over and over again. In my
> experience, PMs were
> >> often much more junior (both in terms of age and in the
> org chart) than
> >the
> >> account manager, who would pressure to cut corners. The
> parts that got
> >> squeezed most often were testing and HTML production
> (design on the other
> >> hand could drag on for months while the art directors
> examined their
> >navels
> >> waiting for "inspiration" to hit).
> >>
> >> "Testing? We don't need to schedule more than a few days.
> We can always
> >fix
> >> the problems after launch."
> >>
> >> Of course, you know what happens then: the client is upset
> that they got a
> >> crappy product, and then the account manager runs to the
> PM to scream
> >bloody
> >> murder about it, when it's their own damn fault in the
> first place.
> >>
> >> Feh.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Maia
> >>
> >>
>
__________________________________________________________________________
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> >>
> >> To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for
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> >>
> >> Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
> morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>
> >
>
>__________________________________________________________________________
> >To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the
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> >
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>
> >commands including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and
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> archive at
> >the website.
> >
> >Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
> morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> --
> ..............................................................
> Ruth Kaufman
> 212.828.6386 (home)
> 917.623.7423 (mobile)
> ruth@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://ruthkaufman.com
> ..............................................................
>
__________________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the
> subject to webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular
> commands including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and
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> list archive at the website.
>
> Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to
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