Hi Tia, usually experience is the main factor that makes them see the light. I've had the same problem. The reason PM's don't like testing sometimes is that it eats into their budget/deadlines. You have to convince them it really saves them money/time. The best way I found to explain it is call it "risk management". Explain the risk they run by not testing. Cheers, Peter At 10:48 PM 6/26/2002 -0700, you wrote: >hi everyone! > >i've worked on a number of small commercial software projects where the >project managers treated testing as an afterthought. does anyone know of a >persuasive way to convince a project manager that formal testing is >important? > >tia __________________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the subject to webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular commands including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and vacation visit www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the list archive at the website. Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me, morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx