[webproducers] Re: persuading a project manager that formal testing is important???

  • From: AKF <outdoorminer2002@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: webproducers@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:19:37 -0700 (PDT)


Heh heh. Sadly enough, it happens on the client-side too just
not on such a grand scale because budgets tend to be less of an
issue than those marketing folks who demand something to be done
by X date.


--- Lydia Sugarman <thegoodegg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> Two words...Screaming Media.  I have never been so frustrated
> with exactly the kind of internal structure you cite and I was
> the client, second-hand.  The same job (as managing editor)
> had all the awful aspects
> you also cite in trying to evolve the "corporate" culture.
> Their (three words...WeTheShoppers) solution was to fire me
> about three weeks before the whole shebang went down the
> dot-bomb toilet.
> 
> Come to ACME for a drink tonight and we can trade war stories!
> 
> Lydia
> 
> AKF wrote:
> 
> > You make some valid points but there are times and
> > organizational cultures where PM's are emasculated by the
> powers
> > that be and all of the methodology in the world can't change
> the
> > situation.
> >
> > I was a PM at a big ad agency and was in charge of PMing all
> > work for one of their biggest clients. Unfortunately for me,
> > there were no safeguards in the organization's process to
> allow
> > me to do my job according to accepted practices. Even so, I
> was
> > still accountable for everything so it was my ass in the
> fryer
> > if the project got fucked.
> >
> > In this particular agency, Account drove everything and I
> mean
> > EVERYTHING. PM's weren't even introduced into the process
> until
> > well after a project was already pitched and the contract
> > already signed. Often, I wouldn't even know about a project
> > until Account dropped a stack of background materials on my
> desk
> > to inform me about a conference call with the client.
> >
> > Thus, I often spent just as much time trying to futz with
> > schedules and budgets to accomodate things like QA as well
> as
> > retro-fitting functionality that the project required as I
> did
> > actually managing the project!
> >
> > I tried time and time again to change this culture by
> insisting
> > that I be involved as early as possible in a project's
> > life-cycle but to no avail. I was both the victim of a poor
> > management structure (with no real internal Champion) that
> > resented my prescence and that thought that PMs and other
> team
> > members were not capable of forward thinking.
> >
> > Obviously, this might be an extreme example but I'm almost
> > positive that it's not an isolated one.
> >
> > --- Lydia Sugarman <thegoodegg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm reading these successive posts and am really at a
> loss.
> > > Who is claiming ownership at the very beginning for a
> given
> > > project?  Who is ultimately managing expectations overall?
> > > And, what kind of project
> > > manager doesn't build in Q&A in a budget and schedule?
> > >
> > > Oh!  I can answer that last one easily.  Anyone who claims
> the
> > > title of project manager but really isn't or else a really
> > > crappy project manager.
> > >
> > > The person who claims original ownership has a
> responsibility
> > > to communicate with all parties concerned, sales, project
> > > management, design, development, programming, in one way
> or
> > > another.  Sales people have to
> > > be educated to understand what must be included in any
> project
> > > for it to be successful and then communicate that to the
> > > clients.
> > >
> > > In cases like this, I'd venture to say that the client is
> > > blameless.  Clients have to be educated about the process
> of
> > > producing this product they're contracting for.  That
> includes
> > > making sure they understand
> > > the entire process and that Q&A is an integral part of
> every
> > > project and protects their investment.  If it is presented
> as
> > > such, they will accept it as part of the schedule and
> cost.
> > > There is a responsibility
> > > to manage client expectations.
> > >
> > > Some of the worst experiences I've had as a client have
> been
> > > with fragmented sales and account management operations,
> e.g.
> > > Screaming Media, where the only thing that mattered was
> the
> > > signature on the contract
> > > and the check every month.  It's nearly three years and I
> am
> > > still bad mouthing them and probably always will.  It
> should
> > > not take 8 months to set filters when the client has
> supplied
> > > everything.  But, before
> > > that, they should have made sure my boss had a better
> > > understanding of how limited their offerings were at the
> time
> > > and that it really wouldn't work for us.
> > >
> > > But, ultimately, it is the responsibility of everyone
> involved
> > > in any given project to do everything s/he can to ensure
> > > success.  Passing the buck won't do it.  And, shoddy
> client
> > > management won't do it.  And,
> > > sloppy project management won't do it.  And, if you are in
> a
> > > position where there is no cooperation or concern for the
> > > quality of the project, walk away and save your
> professional
> > > reputation.  Minimize the
> > > bullshit factor.
> > >
> > > Lydia Sugarman
> > > --
> > > Managing Partner
> > > Private Label InterActive
> > > "Markets are conversations."(c)Cluetrain Manifesto
> > > Intelligent eMail Communications Solutions
> > > P:  212.533.3456
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
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> > > Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
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> >
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> 
> --
> Lydia Sugarman
> --
> Managing Partner
> Private Label InterActive
> "Markets are conversations."(c)Cluetrain Manifesto
> Intelligent eMail Communications Solutions
> P:  212.533.3456
> 
> 
>
__________________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe send a blank message with unsubscribe in the
> subject to webproducers-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> 
> To access our webform (instead of sending e-mail) for popular
> commands including subscribe, unsubscribe, digest, and
> vacation  visit  www.WebProducers.org. You can also access the
> list archive at the website.
> 
> Questions and comments are welcome just e-mail me,
morry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


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