[projectaon] Re: Outstanding Errata Sprint (Week 6)
- From: "David Davis" <feline1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 15:36:23 +0100
I agree with everything John says here -
and Dever clearly hadn’t forgotten the Silver Bow of Duadon (despite getting
its name wrong ;)
cos its listed as one of the Special Items you can carry over to the GM books.
So yes, he would definitely have been aware that some players could be toting a
+8 archery bonus -
this makes it all the more plausible that he decided to calm down the Grand
Weaponmastery bonus a little for players who weren’t encumbered with all those
prior bonuses, to only +3, as past bonuses had been getting out of hand!
From: John TFS
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 2:27 PM
To: projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [projectaon] Re: Outstanding Errata Sprint (Week 6)
It's true, it is a pretty big bonus. Let's look at some other things that can
be done at the Mentora level.
Curing: Neutralize any poisons, venoms or toxins with which you come into
contact.
Pathsmanshop: Cross any terrain on foot (even snow-covered ground) without
leaving tracks.
Psi-scrren: Protect yourself from evil spirits and non-corporeal beings that
attack with psychic energy.
Divination: Effectively gain postcognitive abilities.
So, at Mentora level, assuming he has the above Dsiciplines, Lone Wolf also
gains immunity to poison, protection from ghosts, postcognition on the level of
Johnny Smith from The Dead Zone and the ability to walk, run, etc across even
mud and snow without leaving tracks. In that light an increase in his ability
to throw things or shoot arrows doesn't seem unreasonable. I'll also note that
all Dever needed to write was "This bonus is not cumulative with the
Weaponmastery skill with Bows." He did not choose to do this. It seems clear
to me that the Mentora bonus is supposed to be cumulative with Bow (or Dagger)
skill. So, yes, if you also have the Silver Bow of Duadon (which you probably
aren't getting unless you took Weaponmastery with Bows in Book 6) you get a +8
bonus to Bow shots, making it highly unlikely for you to miss. On the other
hand, it's not like every combat can be ended with bow fire. Bow shots
occasionally let you bypass or reduce the odds on a few fights, but there's
still plenty of other fights to be had.
> Subject: [projectaon] Re: Outstanding Errata Sprint (Week 6)
> From: crusty.chris@xxxxxxxxx
> To: projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 18:03:43 +1200
>
> I think theres also the possibility that the Mentora +2 was intended as
> a bonus if you werent trained in using a bow (and hence you you wouldnt
> have the +3) - ie it doesnt stack. The skill says "Mentoras skilled in
> Weaponmastery are more accurate", that doesn't specifically say that it
> stacks with the +3. Then again, it also doesnt say that it isn't a
> cumulative bonus. It is possible (just barely) to be Mentora without any
> weapon mastery in bow.
>
> When I *first* read the Improved Discipline I assumed it was cumulative
> as I already had training in bow at the time. However, there isnt
> anything there that specifically says it should be used in addition to
> the other +3 bonus (if it applies).
>
> The more I think about it the more sense it seems to make. an extra +2
> which stacks with +3 WM-with-bow seems like a huge bonus, in fact I
> would struggle to come up with a bonus that would offer an equally
> beneficial improvement (other combat disciplines at best only gain +2 CS
> - hardly an equal comparison). Whereas a minimum of +2 (without
> WM-with-bow) is still a good bonus and keeps it more in line with the
> improvement bonuses of other Disciplines.
>
> so:
> 4. The "We all misinterpreted the rules" argument
> * Grand Weaponmastery with Bow +3 is correct.
> * Ad hoc +4 and +5 bonuses replace this.
> * The Mentora +2 only applies if you are throwing a dagger etc (as
> by the Grandmaster series you should have WS-with-bow and hence get the
> +3 or greater bonus).
>
>
> On Fri, 2011-06-24 at 15:28 +0800, Timothy Pederick wrote:
> > I'm seeing a fair bit of (what appears to me to be) arguing at
> > cross-purposes. Since people said last time that my summary of the
> > situation was helpful, I shall venture to do another one. This time,
> > I'll just lay out the arguments that I think have been seriously
> > proposed as people's preferred way of playing.
> > 1. The "Joe Dever got it wrong" argument.
> > * All bonuses for having Grand Weaponmastery with Bow
> > should be +5.
> > * All instances of +3 (and that one ad hoc +4) should be
> > changed.
> > 2. The "Grand Weaponmastery is intentionally worse" argument.
> > * The Grand Weaponmastery with Bow +3 is correct.
> > * Ad hoc +4 and +5 bonuses replace this.
> > * +3 and +4 are worse than a loyal reader's +5, so the
> > loyal reader gets to use their +5 at all times.
> > 3. The "Grand Weaponmastery is the same as Weaponmastery"
> > argument.
> > * Grand Weaponmastery with Bow +3 is correct.
> > * Ad hoc +4 and +5 bonuses replace this.
> > * A loyal reader who got the Mentora +2 (which is a
> > subtly different bonus) can add that to Grand
> > Weaponmastery, giving them a +5 (or ad hoc +6 or +7).
> > Correct?
> >
> > --
> > Tim Pederick
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~
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>
>
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