[projectaon] Re: Outstanding Errata Sprint (Week 6)
- From: Timothy Pederick <pederick@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 23:57:44 +0800
On 7 June 2011 08:22, Jonathan Blake <jonathan.blake@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> OK, this is pretty radical but how about tacking on some text borrowed
> from 103 and modified to suit this section? For example, add:
>
Seems good to me.
> However, I'm not sure that it hurts anything to leave the note about
> Nexus here. At the very least, it makes clear what Discipline is
> helping you. At worst, people like us who scour the books will notice.
> I don't think the average reader would notice let alone bothered
> because they would need to know that they can only get here through a
> specific sequence of sections: not something most readers realize.
>
I like that reasoning. Basically, the operative part of this sentence is
whether or not you've reached the rank of Archmaster, and I think it reads
better to mention having Nexus as well as asking about rank, than to just
ask about rank and then have you using your improved Nexus ability.
> [bk: Seems like the best way out of this would be to change the text in
> > section 119, but there's no obvious place to do it. Maybe something like
> > changing "Just then the first of his troops appear at the rail" to "As
> you
> > shoulder your bow, the first of his troops appear at the rail"? Changes
> the
> > meaning a bit, but it does get the bow shouldered.]
> >
> > <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/12tmod/sect347.htm>
>
> I like your suggestion, Ben.
>
Count me as a supporter of this wording, too.
> > (ft) 79: Apart from the armour [jfs: What happens with your
> armour
> > (if carrying one)? Can you still carry a Waistcoast (either Padded
> Leather
> > or Chainmail) if you have one?]
> >
> > <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/12tmod/sect79.htm>
>
> I guess so?
>
I don't see why not. The "armour" is a mask, "battle jacket", and leggings;
only the jacket would conflict with the usual armours, and "jacket" suggests
it can go over the top. It might be a bit bulky, but given the discussions
around wearing Leather + Chainmail + Bronin + Kagonite that we're going
through at present...
>
> > (ft) 159: The Bronin Vest may be worn with a Padded Leather
> Waistcoat,
> > but not with a Chainmail Waistcoat. [DED: Do we have a canonical source
> for
> > this footnote? The item is described as a "vest". I've always regarded a
> > vest as an male undergarment, worn underneath a shirt (never mind a
> > waistcoat). That would suggest to me that there is no problem with
> wearing
> > it under the Padded Leather Waistcoat or the Chainmail Waistcoat. (Bronin
> is
> > special non-tarnishing alloy of copper and tin? I imagined it is beaten
> very
> > thin here to form a fine 'vest'). When Dever introduced the Kagonite
> > Chainmail in the same book, he specifically mentioned in the text that it
> > could be worn with other garments - so it's slightly odd that no explicit
> > note was put in the text here: it suggests he either forgot, or
> considered
> > the word 'vest' to obviously imply there no problem?]
> >
> > <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/12tmod/sect159.htm>
>
> I'm not aware of any canonical source that explicitly states this. The
> best we have, I think, is Summer Special 1985:
>
> http://www.projectaon.org/en/ReadersHandbook/NewsletterExcerpts#lwcnss85
>
> So it would be better to offer guidance rather than dictate. Also
> problematic in this regard is our current Reader's Handbook entry on
> Armour:
>
> http://www.projectaon.org/en/ReadersHandbook/TopicalA#Armour
>
> > ====================================
> >
> > Grand Master Rules Queries:
> >
> > ====================================
> >
> > The Plague Lords of Ruel:
> >
> > (er) The Game Rules: If you have successfully completed any of the
> > previous adventures in the Lone Wolf series (Books 1-12), you can carry
> ->
> > ...you should carry [so: the word 'can' here is causing confusion among
> > some readers, particularly non-native English speakers.]
> >
> > <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/13tplor/gamerulz.htm>
>
> Agreed. In the errata we should make sure it's clear this is about the
> CS and EP. At first I thought this was about equipment which didn't
> make sense to me. Then I realized it was about the attributes.
>
> > (er) The Story So Far: Some factions which comprised this huge
> army
> > -> Some factions which composed this huge army [tp: or "constituted", or
> > "made up", or "were part of". Also affects other GM books]
> >
> > <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/13tplor/tssf.htm>
>
> I don't find this in any of the books. Already fixed?
>
> > ====================================
> >
> > The Captives of Kaag:
> >
> > (ft) The Game Rules: If you have successfully completed any of the
> > previous adventures in the Lone Wolf series (Books 1-13), you can carry
> your
> > current scores of COMBAT SKILL and ENDURANCE points over to Book 14.
> These
> > scores may include Lore-circle bonuses. You may also benefit from the
> > Disciplines that you've mastered (e.g. Weaponmastery, Curing, and
> Psi-surge
> > bonuses)
> > [DED: The text from the end of the Grand Master Disciplines section,
> namely
> > "For every Grand Master Discipline you possess, in excess of the original
> > four Disciplines you begin with, you may add 1 point to your basic COMBAT
> > SKILL score and 2 points to your basic ENDURANCE points score" should
> surely
> > be here too? Otherwise it almost implies that the +1CS +2EP per book
> bonus
> > doesn't kick in until you complete The Captives of Kaag. I get the
> > impression Joe Dever updated the rules for each book by cutting and
> pasting
> > on his new-fangled word processor, and missed a few things! I know we've
> > already put a footnote here to our "Rules Handbook", but it seems to me
> > easier for the readers if we just insert this missing sentence.]
> >
> > <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/14tcok/gamerulz.htm>
>
> I sorry, I don't follow. What are you suggesting and why?
>
> > (ft) Equipment: If you have the Discipline of Grand Weaponmastery
> > with a Bow, you may add 3 to any number that you pick from the Random
> Number
> > Table, when using the Bow. -> If you have the Discipline of Grand
> > Weaponmastery with a Bow, you may add 5 to any number that you pick from
> the
> > Random Number Table, when using the Bow.
> > [DED: I remember raising this before, and we decided not to change it,
> but
> > re-playing Captives of Kaag I now feel sure it is a cut-and-paste error
> > Dever has made from updating the Magnakai rules, because several of the
> > sections where you use a bow have an explicit reminder that you should
> add 5
> > to the number you pick (e.g. 227, 335). This also makes sense in terms of
> > Grand Weaponmastery being a cumulative improvement on Weaponmastery, as
> you
> > have the original +3 bonus, combined with the +2 missile/projectile bonus
> > gained with the rank of Mentora.]
> >
> > <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/14tcok/equipmnt.htm>
>
> I searched the XML to find intstances where the reader is explicitly
> told to bonus (i.e. "add" followed by a number) for having "Grand
> Weaponmastery" with a "Bow". Here's the count from Grand Master and
> New Order series:
>
I see your tally and raise you a breakdown. :-P
*13tplor:* 3 @ +3
*14tcok:* 2 @ +5
*15tdc:* 1 @ +4
*16tlov:* 3 @ +3
*18dotd:* 1 @ +5
*19wb:* 1 @ +5
*20tcon:* 2 @ +5
*21votm:* 5 @ +3
*22tbos:* 1 @ +5
*25totw:* 3 @ +3
*26tfobm:* 2 @ +3
*27v:* 1 @ +3
*28thos:* 2 @ +3
Worth noting is that I get only 19 uses of +3, about half of Jon's totals.
Perhaps Jon was counting 16 books' worth of mentions in the Grand Master
Disciplines text? And/or frequent mentions in the errata?
It's also worth noting, as Jon did, that every use of +3 in the New Order
series is phrased as a reminder ("remember to add"). That says to me that
Dever was making more of an effort to be consistent with his rules, and
using the one bonus consistently (except that one time in 22tbos) seems to
mesh well with that. (In contrast, +3 and +5 are tied at 6 each in the Grand
Master series.)
Of course none of that really has any bearing on what I'm about to suggest,
which is that *it's possible Dever intended the +3 to be an incremental
improvement over the Mentora's +2, and forgot that pre-Mentora Weaponmastery
already gave a +3.* I suggest this because when I reread the Mentora
improvements just now, I couldn't see at first what the problem was -- "it
says you can add +2, which is less than +3!" What it *doesn't* say is that
you add that to your *existing* bonus; you're supposed to remember that you
have that bonus, I guess. So maybe, just maybe, Dever reread his own text
and was mislead in the same way, thinking that he'd only ever mandated a +2
for Magnakai archers.
Whether or not you think this is likely, it does suggest a solution that
doesn't require massive editing of the GM series. We can simply treat Grand
Weaponmastery as an incremental improvement to the Mentora bonus, and leave
the standard Weaponmastery +3 to join Curing and Psi-Surge as a "hidden
loyalty bonus". (Or make Grand Weaponmastery's +3 an import of the
Weaponmastery +3 and have the Mentora +2 be the hidden bonus.) All this
costs us is a single footnote (...per book).
> <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/17tdoi/gamerulz.htm>
>
> Yeah, we should probably explain the possibility of leaving them in
> safekeeping. The story won't unravel if the reader still has these
> items, but they should probably be warned that the author is going to
> assume that they have been destroyed.
>
The footnotes as they now stand (meaning this one and the one in 14tcok) are
great. If I can propose just one more point for consideration, though...
The whole "you might have left Helshezag and DoV in Safekeeping" business
assumes that you can just ignore the current list, so long as you "imported"
them to the GM series in a previous book. This conflicts with the implied
assumption in 14tcok that *even if* you already imported the Bracers and
Scabbard, you must obey the current list and leave them in Safekeeping for
now.
On 7 June 2011 08:47, David Davis <feline1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Yeah, that was all I ever remembered reading on the subject too - and I
> can't for the life of me see how we get that to saying Bronin Vests can't be
> worn under Chainmail Waistcoats!
I would guess it came from earlier in the section; when first mentioned, the
bronin armour is specifically called "chainmail". In the absence of any
other guidance from Joe Dever, that was probably enough to group it with the
Chainmail Waistcoat in the mind of whoever wrote that footnote.
Of course, I always had an assumption (apparently unsupported by the rules
as written) that you could wear just two items of armour, a "light" one
under a "heavy" one. Padded Leather and Chainmail is the default (and
explicitly allowed) pair, but the Bronin Vest was also a "heavy" item like
the Chainmail, and the Kagonite could count as either "light" or "heavy".
On 7 June 2011 18:05, Simon Osborne <outspaced@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Should we therefore standardise Magnakai rank -> Kai rank in Books 6, 7, 8,
> 9, and 10?
>
I personally don't have a problem with leaving "Kai rank" and "Magnakai
rank" alone. Of course, if I'm reading this right:
> Book 6 [Levels of Magnakai Training], Book 7 [35], Book 8 [73, 288], Book 9
> [61, 187, 213, 291, 303, 342], Book 10 [4 [x2], 19, 106, 240]: Magnakai Rank
> -> Kai rank
...then "Rank" has been inconsistently capitalised and we should probably do
something about that.
> (er) 260: Giak crew allocate cabins -> The Giak crew allocates
>>> cabins
>>> [LeRoy McSwain, Jan 2007]
>>>
>>> <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/12tmod/sect260.htm>
>>>
>>
>> Ben, regarding your suggestion of "Giak crew members allocate cabins",
>> that makes it seem like no one's in charge. Is that what you think is
>> intended?
>>
>
> STILL OPEN
>
I support Ben's wording; it's exactly what I read the no-article "Giak crew
allocate" to mean, but eliminates the singular/plural confusion.
> [DED: The text from the end of the Grand Master Disciplines section,
>>> namely
>>> "For every Grand Master Discipline you possess, in excess of the original
>>> four Disciplines you begin with, you may add 1 point to your basic COMBAT
>>> SKILL score and 2 points to your basic ENDURANCE points score" should
>>> surely
>>> be here too? Otherwise it almost implies that the +1CS +2EP per book
>>> bonus
>>> doesn't kick in until you complete The Captives of Kaag. I get the
>>> impression Joe Dever updated the rules for each book by cutting and
>>> pasting
>>> on his new-fangled word processor, and missed a few things! I know we've
>>> already put a footnote here to our "Rules Handbook", but it seems to me
>>> easier for the readers if we just insert this missing sentence.]
>>>
>>> <http://www.projectaon.org/test/en/xhtml/lw/14tcok/gamerulz.htm>
>>>
>>
>> I sorry, I don't follow. What are you suggesting and why?
>>
>
> STILL OPEN
>
I see what David's suggesting -- it *would* be clearer to put this +1 CS/+2
EP increase into Game Rules rather than Disciplines -- but I'm not sure why
the text as-is implies that you don't get the bonus until after 14tcok. The
increase is noted at the end of every Disciplines section starting from
13tplor, so you definitely get the benefit in time for book 14.
--
Tim Pederick
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