[projectaon] Re: Outstanding Errata Sprint (Week 6)
- From: Timothy Pederick <pederick@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: projectaon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:15:24 +0800
On 24 June 2011 04:46, Chris Neilson <crusty.chris@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> heh, I cant help but think this is a subtle way to say "shut up" :)
>
Not at all! I realise in hindsight that I might have sounded sarcastic, but
I meant what I said literally. :-)
> But I dont think you do understand my argument.
>
What you describe still sounds exactly like my "option 1" interpretation of
your argument: "You can't use any bonus of whatever kind from Weaponmastery
and Grand Weaponmastery together".
I admit that my comparison to Curing/Deliverance was flawed, though. Using
both is still justified on the grounds that you never use the two of them *in
the same section*. So you got me there.
> Your system, if I understand what youre saying, seems to involve trying
> to work out bonuses from the Magnakai series that arent explicitly
> listed in the Grandmaster series and adding them to the explicitly
> listed bonuses but only if the Grandmaster bonus isnt higher and only if
> the moon is waning (ok the last part was just me taking the piss).
Sort of, but not really. As it happens, every single case is clear-cut *
except* the matter of bonuses to shooting Bows. In every case, a new
Discipline gives every benefit of the previous one, usually (but not always)
improved, *or* it gives *nothing like* the old benefit, and so that old
benefit becomes a "hidden loyalty bonus".
In the case of WM/GWM, you get a bonus that's like the old one, but
apparently worse. That in itself sparked this whole question.
Having read the exact wording of the WM-with-Bow, Mentora-with-WM, and
GWM-with-Bow descriptions, my conclusion is that Mentora-with-WM is itself a
unique case. It's the only apparent "improvement" to a Discipline bonus that
isn't actually described as an improvement. The conclusion is either that
you don't get to use its +2 along with the standard +3, or you do. Both you
and I have said that you do.
And then I take it one step further and say that this means that
Mentora-with-WM is a *different* benefit to the standard
+X-when-shooting-Bows. Since GWM doesn't give a benefit like it, it must
therefore become a hidden loyalty bonus. I say it's still usable on any
missile weapon shots in the GM series, even when GWM is also used. (I say
this because it had the unique property of stacking with WM, so it can also
stack with GWM.)
You, on the other hand, say that this would be using WM and GWM together,
and is therefore forbidden, regardless of whether the bonuses are alike or
not. Correct?
In practice, our arguments only differ when the GM series tells you to add 4
or 5 if you have GWM with Bow. I say Mentoras get to add their +2 as well;
you say they don't (but that they get to use their Magnakai 5 instead of 4).
> To me
> this seems overly complicated; you have to look at each Discipline,
> compare it to its Grandmaster equivalent and then work out if the bonus
> should stack/update/be updated the Grandmaster bonus.
>
I think your nice, simple "work out if" covers a bucketload of complexity in
how the different Disciplines compare! ;-)
>
> Given the above situation, and the way I understand your argument, youd
> get the on-the-spot GWM bonus, +2 from Mentora bonus which would
> occasionally end up with a higher bonus than my system (ie when the
> on-the-spot GWM bonus was +4 or +5).
>
Yes.
In conclusion: you and I have both now stated that the other's argument
makes sense. I choose mine because I think it makes *more* sense. You choose
yours because you say mine is more complex -- if I don't outright reject the
simultaneous use of a Discipline and its equivalent, I have to look at all
of them for special cases.
I say this isn't true -- Weaponmastery is the *only* special case, so
there's very little complexity. And I believe that I've demonstrated that
both you and I already had to account for Weaponmastery's oddity (a unique
stacks-with-self Discipline) in the Magnakai series. So applying the same
logic to the Grand Master series is not complex at all.
--
Tim Pederick
Other related posts:
