Yea, Ron, I'm happy with all answers to this one now. I could work that way!
Carol P ---- Original Message ---- From: "Ronald Johnson" <ganahee@xxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:22 AM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: is a paid screenreader for the mac a option?
What I mean is, once Dropbox is initially set up, you can't do anything with the client's window - pick an alternate location for the Dropbox Folder, see what transfers are taking place and what speeds, set bandwidth, etc. As to initially setting it up, I know all about viewing package contents, going to the OS X folder and opening the Dropbox UNIX executable file, which loads in Terminal, but produces an 100% accessible setup window, outside of Terminal. I'm currently using DB, and have a few folders shared - between a friend of mine and I, someone else I'm exchanging files with, and my BF, so I'm aware of how they work, etc. HTH? Ron On Jun 26, 2012, at 12:01 AM, Carol Pearson wrote: > What do you mean, that you can't configure Dropbox? > Please explain as I currently use this a lot! > > Carol P > ---- Original Message ---- > From: Ronald Johnson > To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:45 PM > Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: is a paid screenreader for > the > mac a option? > >> Hi list! >> >> >> It's been quite a while since I last posted, but I just >> felt compelled to offer my two cent's worth to this >> discussion. >> >> >> First off, let me say that, in point of fact, we do >> have a pay-for screen reader in the form of VoiceOver. >> If you think about it, in the past, when we shelled >> out our $129.99 for Tiger and Leopard, then, more >> recently, our $29.99 for Snow Leopard and Lion, we >> were, in fact, paying for VoiceOver - just not >> shelling out between $600 and $1200 for a add-on >> program complete with registration keys, >> authorizations, etc. The difference here is that the >> entire Mac user community of several million, helps >> Apple fund R&D for VoiceOver with every copy of OS X >> they purchase. Since VO is integrated, yet purely >> optional, no sighted person ever need know, or care, >> that it's there, until they have need for it, as it's >> not something which is in their way, in their face, >> etc. >> >> >> Secondly, while it's true there are more accessible >> apps on the Windows platform, than on the Mac, this >> only stands to reason as JFW's been around now for >> what, about 20 years, give or take? How long has VO >> been around - about 7 years? 8, if you count the >> Spoken Interface Preview project. Quite frankly, >> since Tiger was released on April 29th, 2005, I've >> been pleasantly surprised at the number of >> partially-accessible, to fully-accessible apps which >> have become available for the Mac. I've not found >> much I can't do with my Mac, aside from configuring >> Dropbox, and the occasional thing like that. >> Remember, JFW, Window Eyes, et al, cater to the app, >> while VoiceOver puts the burden on the developer to >> make their apps accessible. Also, pretty much >> everything in Apple's lineup is accessible. Can any >> other companies say that with a straight face? >> >> >> Thirdly, if memory serves me correctly, VoiceOver has >> been able to be controlled via Applescript, since Snow >> Leopard, for sure. I do recall that there is a member >> of this list who was working on a system which combined >> Applescript, VO, and an App, called "KwikKeys", to make >> apps more accessible. In other words, VO is >> scriptable, in it's own way, same as JFW and >> Window-Eyes. Perhaps people should look to this >> capability, before rushing to the conclusion that we >> need a "Pay-for" screen reader? Seems to me we've been >> given many marvelous tools by Apple to make using a >> Mac easier and more rewarding. >> Guys like you, William, can learn everything you can >> about VO and how to make efficient use of it, learn >> applescript, and design a suite of VO scripts which >> would make some apps more VO-friendly than they >> currently are. You could even sell your suite of >> scripts on the app store? Just a thought. >> >> >> Finally, might a "Pay-for" screen reader be beneficial? >> Perhaps, as it'd give Apple competition inside the Mac >> community. Should it happen? Probably not. Seems to >> me the best way to get more VO-accessible apps is to >> provide developers with incentives for doing so. If >> that means Apple, or some other authoritative >> organization handing out a meaningful award, once a >> year, for the most VO-accessible app, then so be it. >> If it means paying a little bit more for the apps >> then, instead of grumbling about the cost, we should >> pay it. If it means bombarding developers with kind, >> well-thought-out eMails about accessibility of their >> apps, or lack thereof, again, so be it. Point is, the >> developer community has to have a valid, viable reason >> for putting in the extra time and effort to make >> things accessible and we, the members of the VoiceOver >> community, can be instruments for changing that. >> >> >> Lastly, I do agree that training would be a huge help. >> I suspect most of us just "wing it" - I know I sure >> do! LOL I know, good training can be hard to come by, >> can cost bookoo bucks, or may not even be available in >> more remote, rural areas. That being said, knowing >> how to properly use a tool definitely makes using it >> much easier, enjoyable, efficient, etc. Also, before >> I forget >> - the suggestion about writing to >> accessibility@xxxxxxxxx >> - an excellent idea! They do respond, and the issues >> usually get resolved, if not immediately, within the >> next few releases of the OS. >> >> >> Well, that's pretty much what I've got to say on the >> subject. I hope I've made some valid points, offered >> valuable insights and given folks a few things to "chew >> on" as it were? >> >> >> Take care, >> >> >> Ron J. >> >> >> Ron J. | AKA Ganahee >> >> Messenger Services: >> >> AIM: Ganahee >> MSN: Ganahee@xxxxxxxxxxx >> Yahoo!: Ganahee >> Skype: Ganahee >> >> Alternate Contact: >> >> E-Mail: Ganahee@xxxxxxxxx >> Home: 605-759-0694 >> Cell: 605-759-0694 >> >> "For millions of years, mankind lived, just like the >> animals. Then something happened, which unleashed the >> power of our imagination - we learned to talk." >> >> From the MD "The Division Bell", the track "Keep >> Talking". >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 25, 2012, at 3:32 PM, John Panarese wrote: >> >> >> For word processing, there are a few. There is Bean, >> iText Express and Nisus Writer Express, that come to >> mind. There is also the Open Office suite. The >> spreadsheet part of Open Office is pretty good, or was >> in the last version I've seen. There is also Tables >> as a spreadsheet application. >> >> >> Take Care >> >> John Panarese >> jpanarese@xxxxxxxxx >> >> >> >> On Jun 25, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Ian Edwards >> <ianedwards42@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> John, I deleted the message regarding alternatives to >> iWork Pages. Can you give a heads-up as to what you >> find to be a good solution for word processing? I've >> got a pretty good handle on Text Edit, anything else >> out there? >> >> >> >> Peace, >> >> >> >> Ian >> >> >> >> On 2012-06-25, at 2:14 PM, rhonda cruz wrote: >> >> >> >> hello John, and all. >> >> >> >> I feel that john. is a wonderful teacher. >> >> and i am going to get some help from him. >> >> some day. >> >> >> >> keep up the great work. >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 25, 2012, at 12:16 PM, John Panarese wrote: >> >> >> >> That's why I offered alternatives to iWorks. I am not >> disagreeing with some of his points. I am disagreeing >> with his conclusions and inferences. >> >> >> >> Let's not forget that Mountain Lion is coming soon. >> Let's wait to see what improvements will be found for >> VoiceOver. Also, as I indicated, strong rumors point >> to an update to iWorks. >> >> >> >> Take Care >> >> >> >> John Panarese >> >> jpanarese@xxxxxxxxx >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 25, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Laura >> <laura.mcg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> >> Out of interest, what in the original message is >> preventable with training? I disagree with the paid >> alternative to VoiceOver, but aren't most of the points >> William raises valid? Tables in Pages are often >> difficult, and, at the moment, getting to third party >> status bar items is complicated. Pages in general seems >> to me to have some reasonably big accessibility >> bugs--I.E. the inability to read track changes or >> comments. >> >> >> >> I'm not picking an argument, honestly. I'm just >> curious, because the only part of the message I'd >> question is the part about not being able to search >> for form fields in tables on webpages. If there are >> straightforward methods for achieving some of the >> other things he finds difficult, I'd love to hear >> about them, too. >> >> >> >> Cheers. >> >> >> >> Laura >> >> >> >> On 25 Jun 2012, at 19:00, VaShaun Jones wrote: >> >> >> >> I really think you need proper training because the >> statements you are making just are not true. As I've >> stated before there are blind people who work on >> accessibility for the Mac day in and day out and I >> promise you with all my heart proper training prevents >> piss poor performance and this is surely a matter of >> not having the proper training. I will leave this alone >> because a person convinced against their will is of the >> same opinion still. >> >> On Jun 25, 2012, at 8:08 AM, William Windels >> <william.windels@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> After working for more than 3 years with the mac , it's >> my personal opinionthat more basic programs are >> accessible on windows then on the mac platform. >> >> >> >> I find it more stable to work on the mac because of the >> integration of the screenreader voiceover with the osx. >> >> The fact that the hardware is also adapted for us by >> the trackpad and the function-keys with the spoken >> values. >> >> And of course the flexible way we can install , manage >> the system with voiceover support everywhere. >> >> >> >> However, we can't e.g. configure dropbox with voiceover >> while this is possible on windows, office programs like >> microsoft office and also iWork's aren't fully >> accessible with lay-out tasks, in my opinion there are >> several usability issues with the browsers on the mac, >> some ellements of the os , like >> >> Tables, on websites and on numbers and pages, are very >> difficult to navigate e.g. you can't search for >> edit-fields on websites while they are in a table and >> in pages, you can't work with tables on a comfortable >> way. >> >> the icon's on the status bar, can't be reached on a >> normal way with voiceover... >> >> >> >> My conclusion: a paid screenreader for the mac that >> makes program's accessible with scripts (like screen >> readers on windows do), should be very welcome I think. >> >> With this kind of optional screenreader, blind users >> should be able to use all the equivalents on the mac of >> their windows favorites. Perhaps it should push apple >> to make their screenreader better on a faster speed. >> >> >> >> Why such screenreader doesn't exist yet? >> >> I see 2 reasons for this: >> >> 1. Apple should not be happy with this and the >> screenreader of apple should have more possibilities to >> integrate with the os then the external screenreader. >> >> 2. Other communities don't see a reason to make a >> screenreader for the mac while there is one built in. >> >> If it should be the second reason, any people with >> accessibility frustrations on the mac , should >> communicate this to other companies like gw micro, >> freedom scientific, baum... >> >> >> >> Any opinions about this meanings should be very >> welcome. >> >> kind regards, >> >> William Windels> >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on >> the link below. >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging >> into the Web >> >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on >> the link below. >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging >> into the Web >> >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on >> the link below. >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging >> into the Web >> >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on >> the link below. >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging >> into the Web >> >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on >> the link below. >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging >> into the Web >> >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on >> the link below. >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging >> into the Web >> >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on >> the link below. >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging >> into the Web >> >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover > > Click on the link below to go to our homepage. > http://www.icanworkthisthing.com > > Manage your subscription by using the web interface on > the link below. > //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover > > Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to > macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging > into the Web> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover
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