[macvoiceover] Re: is a paid screenreader for the mac a option?
- From: Ronald Johnson <ganahee@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 01:22:43 -0500
What I mean is, once Dropbox is initially set up, you can't do anything with
the client's window - pick an alternate location for the Dropbox Folder, see
what transfers are taking place and what speeds, set bandwidth, etc. As to
initially setting it up, I know all about viewing package contents, going to
the OS X folder and opening the Dropbox UNIX executable file, which loads in
Terminal, but produces an 100% accessible setup window, outside of Terminal.
I'm currently using DB, and have a few folders shared - between a friend of
mine and I, someone else I'm exchanging files with, and my BF, so I'm aware of
how they work, etc.
HTH?
Ron
On Jun 26, 2012, at 12:01 AM, Carol Pearson wrote:
> What do you mean, that you can't configure Dropbox? Please explain as I
> currently use this a lot!
>
> Carol P
> ---- Original Message ----
> From: Ronald Johnson
> To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 11:45 PM
> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: is a paid screenreader for the
> mac a option?
>
>> Hi list!
>>
>>
>> It's been quite a while since I last posted, but I just
>> felt compelled to offer my two cent's worth to this
>> discussion.
>>
>>
>> First off, let me say that, in point of fact, we do have
>> a pay-for screen reader in the form of VoiceOver. If you
>> think about it, in the past, when we shelled out our
>> $129.99 for Tiger and Leopard, then, more recently, our
>> $29.99 for Snow Leopard and Lion, we were, in fact,
>> paying for VoiceOver - just not shelling out between $600
>> and $1200 for a add-on program complete with registration
>> keys, authorizations, etc. The difference here is that
>> the entire Mac user community of several million, helps
>> Apple fund R&D for VoiceOver with every copy of OS X they
>> purchase. Since VO is integrated, yet purely optional,
>> no sighted person ever need know, or care, that it's
>> there, until they have need for it, as it's not something
>> which is in their way, in their face, etc.
>>
>>
>> Secondly, while it's true there are more accessible apps
>> on the Windows platform, than on the Mac, this only
>> stands to reason as JFW's been around now for what, about
>> 20 years, give or take? How long has VO been around -
>> about 7 years? 8, if you count the Spoken Interface
>> Preview project. Quite frankly, since Tiger was released
>> on April 29th, 2005, I've been pleasantly surprised at
>> the number of partially-accessible, to fully-accessible
>> apps which have become available for the Mac. I've not
>> found much I can't do with my Mac, aside from configuring
>> Dropbox, and the occasional thing like that. Remember,
>> JFW, Window Eyes, et al, cater to the app, while
>> VoiceOver puts the burden on the developer to make their
>> apps accessible. Also, pretty much everything in Apple's
>> lineup is accessible. Can any other companies say that
>> with a straight face?
>>
>>
>> Thirdly, if memory serves me correctly, VoiceOver has
>> been able to be controlled via Applescript, since Snow
>> Leopard, for sure. I do recall that there is a member of
>> this list who was working on a system which combined
>> Applescript, VO, and an App, called "KwikKeys", to make
>> apps more accessible. In other words, VO is scriptable,
>> in it's own way, same as JFW and Window-Eyes. Perhaps
>> people should look to this capability, before rushing to
>> the conclusion that we need a "Pay-for" screen reader?
>> Seems to me we've been given many marvelous tools by
>> Apple to make using a Mac easier and more rewarding.
>> Guys like you, William, can learn everything you can
>> about VO and how to make efficient use of it, learn
>> applescript, and design a suite of VO scripts which would
>> make some apps more VO-friendly than they currently are.
>> You could even sell your suite of scripts on the app
>> store? Just a thought.
>>
>>
>> Finally, might a "Pay-for" screen reader be beneficial?
>> Perhaps, as it'd give Apple competition inside the Mac
>> community. Should it happen? Probably not. Seems to me
>> the best way to get more VO-accessible apps is to provide
>> developers with incentives for doing so. If that means
>> Apple, or some other authoritative organization handing
>> out a meaningful award, once a year, for the most
>> VO-accessible app, then so be it. If it means paying a
>> little bit more for the apps then, instead of grumbling
>> about the cost, we should pay it. If it means bombarding
>> developers with kind, well-thought-out eMails about
>> accessibility of their apps, or lack thereof, again, so
>> be it. Point is, the developer community has to have a
>> valid, viable reason for putting in the extra time and
>> effort to make things accessible and we, the members of
>> the VoiceOver community, can be instruments for changing
>> that.
>>
>>
>> Lastly, I do agree that training would be a huge help. I
>> suspect most of us just "wing it" - I know I sure do! LOL
>> I know, good training can be hard to come by, can cost
>> bookoo bucks, or may not even be available in more
>> remote, rural areas. That being said, knowing how to
>> properly use a tool definitely makes using it much
>> easier, enjoyable, efficient, etc. Also, before I forget
>> - the suggestion about writing to accessibility@xxxxxxxxx
>> - an excellent idea! They do respond, and the issues
>> usually get resolved, if not immediately, within the next
>> few releases of the OS.
>>
>>
>> Well, that's pretty much what I've got to say on the
>> subject. I hope I've made some valid points, offered
>> valuable insights and given folks a few things to "chew
>> on" as it were?
>>
>>
>> Take care,
>>
>>
>> Ron J.
>>
>>
>> Ron J. | AKA Ganahee
>>
>> Messenger Services:
>>
>> AIM: Ganahee
>> MSN: Ganahee@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Yahoo!: Ganahee
>> Skype: Ganahee
>>
>> Alternate Contact:
>>
>> E-Mail: Ganahee@xxxxxxxxx
>> Home: 605-759-0694
>> Cell: 605-759-0694
>>
>> "For millions of years, mankind lived, just like the
>> animals. Then something happened, which unleashed the
>> power of our imagination - we learned to talk."
>>
>> From the MD "The Division Bell", the track "Keep Talking".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2012, at 3:32 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>
>>
>> For word processing, there are a few. There is Bean,
>> iText Express and Nisus Writer Express, that come to
>> mind. There is also the Open Office suite. The
>> spreadsheet part of Open Office is pretty good, or was in
>> the last version I've seen. There is also Tables as a
>> spreadsheet application.
>>
>>
>> Take Care
>>
>> John Panarese
>> jpanarese@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2012, at 4:24 PM, Ian Edwards
>> <ianedwards42@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>> John, I deleted the message regarding alternatives to
>> iWork Pages. Can you give a heads-up as to what you find
>> to be a good solution for word processing? I've got a
>> pretty good handle on Text Edit, anything else out there?
>>
>>
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>>
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2012-06-25, at 2:14 PM, rhonda cruz wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> hello John, and all.
>>
>>
>>
>> I feel that john. is a wonderful teacher.
>>
>> and i am going to get some help from him.
>>
>> some day.
>>
>>
>>
>> keep up the great work.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2012, at 12:16 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> That's why I offered alternatives to iWorks. I am not
>> disagreeing with some of his points. I am disagreeing
>> with his conclusions and inferences.
>>
>>
>>
>> Let's not forget that Mountain Lion is coming soon.
>> Let's wait to see what improvements will be found for
>> VoiceOver. Also, as I indicated, strong rumors point to
>> an update to iWorks.
>>
>>
>>
>> Take Care
>>
>>
>>
>> John Panarese
>>
>> jpanarese@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2012, at 3:10 PM, Laura <laura.mcg@xxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Out of interest, what in the original message is
>> preventable with training? I disagree with the paid
>> alternative to VoiceOver, but aren't most of the points
>> William raises valid? Tables in Pages are often
>> difficult, and, at the moment, getting to third party
>> status bar items is complicated. Pages in general seems
>> to me to have some reasonably big accessibility
>> bugs--I.E. the inability to read track changes or
>> comments.
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not picking an argument, honestly. I'm just curious,
>> because the only part of the message I'd question is the
>> part about not being able to search for form fields in
>> tables on webpages. If there are straightforward methods
>> for achieving some of the other things he finds
>> difficult, I'd love to hear about them, too.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>>
>> On 25 Jun 2012, at 19:00, VaShaun Jones wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I really think you need proper training because the
>> statements you are making just are not true. As I've
>> stated before there are blind people who work on
>> accessibility for the Mac day in and day out and I
>> promise you with all my heart proper training prevents
>> piss poor performance and this is surely a matter of not
>> having the proper training. I will leave this alone
>> because a person convinced against their will is of the
>> same opinion still.
>>
>> On Jun 25, 2012, at 8:08 AM, William Windels
>> <william.windels@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> After working for more than 3 years with the mac , it's
>> my personal opinionthat more basic programs are
>> accessible on windows then on the mac platform.
>>
>>
>>
>> I find it more stable to work on the mac because of the
>> integration of the screenreader voiceover with the osx.
>>
>> The fact that the hardware is also adapted for us by the
>> trackpad and the function-keys with the spoken values.
>>
>> And of course the flexible way we can install , manage
>> the system with voiceover support everywhere.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, we can't e.g. configure dropbox with voiceover
>> while this is possible on windows, office programs like
>> microsoft office and also iWork's aren't fully accessible
>> with lay-out tasks, in my opinion there are several
>> usability issues with the browsers on the mac, some
>> ellements of the os , like
>>
>> Tables, on websites and on numbers and pages, are very
>> difficult to navigate e.g. you can't search for
>> edit-fields on websites while they are in a table and in
>> pages, you can't work with tables on a comfortable way.
>>
>> the icon's on the status bar, can't be reached on a
>> normal way with voiceover...
>>
>>
>>
>> My conclusion: a paid screenreader for the mac that makes
>> program's accessible with scripts (like screen readers on
>> windows do), should be very welcome I think.
>>
>> With this kind of optional screenreader, blind users
>> should be able to use all the equivalents on the mac of
>> their windows favorites. Perhaps it should push apple
>> to make their screenreader better on a faster speed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Why such screenreader doesn't exist yet?
>>
>> I see 2 reasons for this:
>>
>> 1. Apple should not be happy with this and the
>> screenreader of apple should have more possibilities to
>> integrate with the os then the external screenreader.
>>
>> 2. Other communities don't see a reason to make a
>> screenreader for the mac while there is one built in.
>>
>> If it should be the second reason, any people with
>> accessibility frustrations on the mac , should
>> communicate this to other companies like gw micro,
>> freedom scientific, baum...
>>
>>
>>
>> Any opinions about this meanings should be very welcome.
>>
>> kind regards,
>>
>> William Windels>
>>
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