Hi Ryan, Ryan Leavengood wrote:
On 5/22/07, Jorge G. Mare (a.k.a. Koki) <koki@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:Why be surprised? What's surprising about the Japanese making sure that they can use a system in their own language? They are targeting Japanese individuals after all, so there is nothing surprising if they make the OS work properly in their own language.Simon wasn't arguing about that. He was surprised they would break unzip so it couldn't unzip latin characters since even Japanese users would occasionally see latin character files.
It it is not as simple as that, and it's my fault that it may have been interpreted in such a way.
Plus, nobody said that unzipping a normal zip file would fail.On the contrary, it seems you implied this in an earlier mail when trying to explain why these changes could not be made in the Haiku SVN: "For example, one of the patches is needed for unzip to be able to handle certain double-byte characters properly; the patch breaks single-byte latin characters support though, so it is not likely to be acceptable in a non-Japanese environment."
You are right. The truth is that I don't know the specific details. All I know is that they have to do what they do in order to be able to unzip files with Japanese filenames under certain circumstances.
Saying "the patch breaks single-byte latin character support" implies that the zip operation will not work right on those files with latin characters. Maybe it won't "fail" in the sense of not unzipping, but the unzipped files would likely be messed up. Simon is arguing that this doesn't make much sense, even for a Japanese targeted demo. I agree with him on that.
If they are doing it, it's because it makes sense to them.
You don't even know the specific details of the changes, so you may be just jumping on the gun with such a statement.Well all we have to work from is your statement above, which clearly says unzipping some things will not work right. Simon is saying having a broken unzip is not something Haiku wants to be associated with, and again I agree.That's certainly an opinion, but you are just giving people who would rather contribute to an official Haiku in their own language another more reason for not doing so. It's as if Haiku wanted more third party distros rather than less.The reality is that if someone wants to contribute to the "official" Haiku project, even in the form of translations into their own language, they will need some grasp of English to perform the translations and when making Subversion commits. Also discussion on this and other Haiku mailing lists is done in English.
Sure. And the point is?
If someone does this and contributes to Haiku instead of forking their own special distribution, it will actually result in less 3rd party distros, not more. In fact, making it really easy to create a Haiku distro or demo will result in more being made, so in a sense you are arguing for more distros in this thread. It's as if Jorge wants more third party distros rather than less, to paraphrase you above. Haiku wants less.
We are actually closer than what you think with regards to how third party distros should be handled. I DO NOT advocate free for all third party Haiku distros as you imply. As a matter of fact, the current distro guidelines reflect my position quite faithfully with regards to third party distros.
I do argue that demos are different from distros in both nature and definition, and that it would be beneficial for Haiku to allow third party demos with Haiku branding as a way to reach out to more people and to increase visibility and recognition.
So, if somebody wants to create a distro, yes, by all means, apply the full force of the distro guidelines. But if somebody just wants to create a demo to, say, hand out at a conference or seminar, then let them use the Haiku logo and name under certain conditions (such as those added to the guidelines by Waldemar), so that it serves the purpose of promoting Haiku, and not a third party distro that does not in fact exist.
Two different things, my friend, so please, let's keep them separate. :) Cheers, Koki