[bksvol-discuss] Re: Questions about brackets, Braille translation, and multiple spaces between words

  • From: "Jake Brownell" <jabrown@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2006 01:20:29 -0600


It doesn't really matter whether you insert a blank line or not. Why not? Because:

BookShare tools analyze the text and mark them up with special tags. They do so using XML, a language that is meant for marking up documents. One of the common tags represents a paragraph.

The tools mark streams of text into paragraphs whether they are followed by a single line break or a double one.

So skipping lines doesn't matter because the tools are going to determine what a paragraph is.

In the DAISY case, the software used to read the material will look at the files and see the marked up text. It then decides (sometimes based on user preferences) how to display a paragraph. When viewed with a web browser it looks much like a web pages paragraphs, and most screen readers will simulate a blank line in between paragraphs. If something like Kurzweil is used there is no blank line simulation. It's all up to the software!

In the case of Braille, there are specific rules for displaying paragraphs that the translator will follow. Again though if the file is read electronically rather than on hard copy Braille paper, the user may be able to use software settings to tailor paragraph output to his or her specific liking.

So finally, it doesn't matter what you give the tools, skipped line or not. What users prefer is up to them, but by that same token it is their responsibility to setup their reading apparatus to their liking.

I hope this makes the waters a little more clear.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Grandma Cindy" <popularplace@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2006 1:06 AM
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Re: Questions about brackets, Braille translation, and multiple spaces between words

THe misconception might have arisen from the fact that
one member complained about "reading" (I don't know if
it is Braille or sound) spaces used for indenting or
other formatting. I've solved the problem by setting
the first line in paragraph in the Format file to .2
or .3 It means that sometimes I have to change the
first line of the page to None, but that's a minor

A long time ago when I asked if people preferred
indented paragraphs or lines skipped between
paragraphs, the majority who answerd said they
preferred indented paragraphs. Is it necessar to do
anything? Does the paragraph symbol at the end of one
paragraph indicate the next paragraph? Is that
sufficient for Braille or Daisy readers, or should be
indent if paragraphs are indented in the book, for
those who do have sight, all or a little.

Someone sent me an article, the first of a series of
Minneapolis NPR, about three blind people and how they
"see" Christmas. In the course of that first part it
said that all three were legally blind, (from
different causes and for different lengths of time)
but were not totally blind. It said that only 10% of
legallhy blind people are totally blind. That seemed a
small number to me, but I assume it is correct.

--- Pratik Patel <pratikp1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Maria et al,

I am not aware of bracket problems with braille
translations.  As far as
I've seen, Bookshare tools are able to convert
brackets.  If this is a
recent phenomenon, then, as usual, I would
appreciate specific book titles
where people know brackets are supposed to exist.  I
will be happy to do

As far as spacing goes, Bookshare tools do not--I
repeat, do not--remove
extra spaces.  As a self-flagellating person, I
would love to be proven
wrong.  So, specific examples would be very helpful.
 You just need to be
careful of headers and/org footers.



From: bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:bksvol-discuss-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Maria Kristic
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2006 11:56 AM
To: bksvol-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [bksvol-discuss] Questions about brackets,
Braille translation, and
multiple spaces between words

Hi all,

In reading some of the recent messages on-list, I,
as someone new, have a
few questions.

1. First, about brackets. Someone mentioned that
brackets didn't appear
in Braille copies of books. As there is a Grade 2
Braille equivalent for a
bracket, albeit two cells long (dot 6, dots 2-3-5-6
for an opening bracket
and dots 2-3-5-6, dot 3 for a closing one), I'm
wondering, what does the
Braille translation software used by Bookshare do to
them? I would think
that, since there is a Braille character for them,
they are translated
correctly, but apparently, that's not the case?
What's done to them, then?
Are they converted in to words, as in the words
"left bracket" or "right
bracket"? I know that Duxbury will convert symbols
with no Grade 2
equivalents to words rather than leaving them in
Computer Braille, and I
can't even begin to tell you how much that irritates
me (for instance, a \
symbol would appear in a BRF file as literally the
word "backslash" (without
the quotes)), but I just checked with it, and even
Duxbury translates them
correctly, which is making me wonder? If no one
knows for sure, can someone
please point me to a book which they know should, in
theory, contain
brackets, so that I can take a look to see for
myself? I ask because I used
them in Girl in the Shadows, so I want to know
whether anything out of the
ordinary happens with them; this way, I can decide
whether I should be
worried about this issue or not.

2. Second, out of curiosity, does anyone happen to
know which Braille
translation software Bookshare uses? If something
strange is indeed
happening to brackets, I'm wondering which
translator exhibits this odd

3. Finally, I'm wondering about the issue someone
mentioned about words
with multiple spaces between them. I thought I'd
read on this list before
that the software which converts books to BRF and
DAISY converts all
multiple spaces in to one (someone was told,
therefore, not to indent
paragraphs), so I'm confused. If the software
converts all multiple,
consecutive spaces to one, how can there still be
words with multiple spaces
between them? Does this stripping of spaces take
place only in specific
places, such as the beginning/end of a page, the
beginning of a sentence, or
somewhere else?

Thanks much to anyone who can clarify this for me,
and hope all of you have
a happy holiday season!

Maria Kristic
Skype: MariaKristic
AIM: MCKristic
E-Mail and MSN:  <mailto:maria6289@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Google Talk:  <mailto:Maria.Kristic@xxxxxxxxx>
Yahoo Messenger:  <mailto:mariakristic@xxxxxxxxx>

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line. To get a list of available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.26/597 - Release Date: 12/21/2006 6:45 PM

To unsubscribe from this list send a blank Email to
put the word 'unsubscribe' by itself in the subject line.  To get a list of 
available commands, put the word 'help' by itself in the subject line.

Other related posts: