Ben, You say: "If you're using Adobe tools for your RAW development and color conversion, yes, you're probably going to do a better job -- but that's because Adobe's color management sucks. But if your color manager and workflow is sane, then the output straight from the RAW converter is going to give you all the detail and color fidelity you can hope to get from the image, and that just leaves you with the artistic decisions (if any) of how to modify the captured image to fit your artistic vision." You're touching on something that I don't know about but which sounds important. How does the Adobe color management suck? ... and what can we do about it? Are you referring to the ACE CMM? Should I be using a different one? Or do you mean: forget about using ACE altogether (which is difficult because you sort of need it to export from Lightroom I think) and use Argyll for conversions? I suppose ACE is OK for something like workspace to workspace (I'm thinking about raw smart object conversion from ProPhoto to BetaRGB, for example), but then use targen, collink, cctiff for the conversion to print? Robert