[SI-LIST] Re: 90 degree bend
- From: Geoff Stokes <gstokes@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'" <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 12:24:14 +0100
Vinoud
Please be careful. I meant that Microwave Office includes equivalent
circuit models for various discontinuities (it also has a 2D simulator but
that was not under discussion and has disadvantages as you pointed out). I
pointed out that the equivalent circuit model is useful but does not give
highest accuracy. In fact, to go further, the circuit model is less
accurate in cases where the physical discontinuity is crowded, i.e. the
circuit density on the PCB is high. The main issue is whether you pay a few
thousand dollars or ten times more for a good 3D tool, and even then the run
time may be slower than you need.
Cheers
Geoff
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vinod Koul [mailto:koul@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> Sent: 04 September 2004 20:25
> To: Geoff Stokes
> Subject: Re: [SI-LIST] Re: 90 degree bend
>
>
> Hi,
> The AWRs Micorowave office is not an EM simulator but a
> ckt sim, with an
> add-on em sim. Furthermore, the performance of Em sim in
> nowhere neear HFSS,
> EEsof, IE3D...... I have worked on it, and there are large
> deviations form
> the results of other simulatore and experimental ones.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Geoff Stokes" <gstokes@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <Charles.Grasso@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; <cpad@xxxxxxxxx>;
> <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:04 AM
> Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: 90 degree bend
>
>
> > Hi All
> >
> > No-one has mentioned the tools which can characterise 90
> degree bends and
> > other RF discontinuities on screen. These include, in
> roughly increasing
> > order of cost:
> > Eagleware Genesys
> > AWR Microwave Office
> > Agilent EEsof
> > Cadence SpectreRF
> >
> > The effects are small but noticeable at about 1 GHz,
> increasing at higher
> > frequencies. Some of these tools will be too expensive for some
> operations,
> > but Eagleware do a personal version which does the job for around 1k
> > dollars. The models are semi-empirical circuit equivalents
> which are very
> > good up to 3 or 4 Ghz and are useful up to 10 GHz or
> possibly more. For
> > best accuracy at high frequencies a 3D wave simulator is
> required, such as
> > Ansoft HFSS or CST Microwave Studio.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Geoff
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Grasso, Charles [mailto:Charles.Grasso@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: 30 August 2004 22:34
> > > To: 'cpad@xxxxxxxxx'; 'si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
> > > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: 90 degree bend
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > When signals have a rise time of 100pS or better
> > > that translates to a bw of 3.5GHz (well into the
> > > uwave region) - So aren't bends important in this case?
> > >
> > > Best Regards
> > > Charles Grasso
> > > Senior Compliance Engineer
> > > Echostar Communications Corp.
> > > Tel: 303-706-5467
> > > Fax: 303-799-6222
> > > Cell: 303-204-2974
> > > Email: charles.grasso@xxxxxxxxxxxx;
> > > Email Alternate: chasgrasso@xxxxxxxx
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Chris Padilla [mailto:cpad@xxxxxxxxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:23 AM
> > > To: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: 90 degree bend
> > >
> > >
> > > I have yet to see any issue arising from bends described as
> > > below. Simulation doesn't show much and neither does real
> > > life. In the
> > > microwave world, yes, they will need consideration.
> > >
> > > Chris Padilla
> > > EMC Engineer
> > > Cisco Systems
> > > San Jose, CA
> > >
> > > At 09:20 PM 8/30/2004 +0530, Kanakaraj wrote:
> > > >Hi,
> > > >The simplest thing is that when you make 90 degree turns
> on the pcb
> > > >track, the electron moving in it cannot make sudden turns..(
> > > remember
> > > >inertia of direction in physics and a bus making a 90
> degree turn at
> > > >full speed)... so some of the electrons will jump out of the
> > > pcb track
> > > >and will cause emi issues..
> > > >
> > > >and Andy, Andrew, Ray anderson and the seniors will give you more
> > > >inputs on that. Well I am too like you. a beginner :-)
> > > >Kanak
> > > >
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "New Bee" <pcb_user@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >To: <si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > >Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:19 PM
> > > >Subject: [SI-LIST] 90 degree bend
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hi
> > > > >
> > > > > I am a new PCB designer.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a silly doubt - really do not know if I ask it in
> > > this forum.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > why is it suggested not to have 90 degree bends for the
> > > traces while
> > > >routing ?
> > > > >
> > > > > If some one can give me the electrical/electronics and
> > > manufacturing
> > > >reasons I will be greatful to them
> > > > >
> > > > > If this is not the right forum to address this please
> let me know
> > > > > where
> > > >can I ask
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks in advance
> > > > > Kam
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > _________________________________________________________
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> > Zetex Semiconductors - Solutions for an analog world
> >
> > http://www.zetex.com
> > _________________________________________________________
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