One thing I have read over the years on OCAD is the importance of separating yourself and your trainee from a trained dog while you are doing training exercises. The concept basically boiled down to the fact that the trainee won't see any purpose in doing the task, if the trained dog keeps completing it for them. Since I have never worked with multiple dogs this way, I don't know if it holds true. I do know that a good friend assisted me with retrieve with Met by using her service dog as a *show and tell* for Met. Heidi would retrieve an item, then she held Heidi back in a down stay while we gave Met the opportunity. It did not take long for him to catch on after this as she did not allow Heidi to finish the task for Met. I think they spent about an hour with us to get us started and just to enjoy the process of watching his *uh huh* moment click into play. Its possible that LaVeau sees no purpose in retrieving since Mill'E will just do it for her. But start back at step 1 in back chaining. Find an item you are comfortable with and that she is apt to work with and choose something tasty to put on the item. I'd go that route myself if I was not so nervous about upsetting Thane's gut equilibrium. Let me know how it goes- Mill'E won't be happy of course, but... Karyn and Thane