>PA doesn't mess around.< Man they sure do not- sounds like I lived in the wrong state when Met was attacked! That dog went on to bite a child who just walked by their yard before it got PTS. >honestly vinegar is a great little tool sometimes< I know you meant this in the figurative sense but actual vinegar saved Met from an attack when we were in California. It was recommended by a dog trainer. I know most here can not use it but thought I would mention it anyway. I know a gal on the OCAD list who recommended throwing crappy tennis balls (you know the dollar store quality) towards the approaching dog. Of course when we can not see the dogs that won't work but those here who can might find that helpful. Of course your own dog needs to be able to understand leaving the ball unless you actually have engaged them with play. Karyn and Met