[pure-silver] Re: new darkroom

From: <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2011 23:00:43 -0700

If the bathroom is connected to the bedroom, you are in business. Make it part of the darkroom too, even if on a temporary basis. Depending on how its laid out, you might even be able to build a more photo friendly sink that would be an easy in and out, if it can be a part of the full time darkroom. When you get there, remember to check where else light leaks are going to be. I can be fairly confident you are going to find leaks is some odd places where something has shifted.

I saw some foam tiles someone mentioned that would be great in a darkroom. At Costco they come in a box for about 30 bucks or so and are about half inch foam. Provide great cushioning to walk on, any spill would be no big deal and when you got ready to turn it back into the bedroom, its just pick them up and throw them in the garage or where ever till you need them again. Often used in garages and would well in the cellar if you went that route as another poster suggested.

As far as vibration, unless you have kids running around, or have others in the house that are active, I would be that worried about the upstairs. I worked for a while upstairs. I just made sure I wasn't walking around during an exposure. Being close to something like a utility room, you would need to make sure the washer wasn't running or something like that but it would be fine.

One other idea that might work for you in Tn instead of an AC is an evaporative cooling unit. Back in the day we called it a swamp cooler. They work well in Tx, but here the air is dry. Not sure how well they would work in Tn, but the humidity they add to the air would keep the dust down. When I worked in a bathroom, I would let the shower steam up the place before setting up and almost never had a problem with dust. The swamp cooler won't put that much mositure in the air, but it does make the air easier for me.

As far as the basement venting, unless you had to put the outside vent right next to another open window, I doubt it would be an issue. Mother nature should dilute it to the point as to be of no concern very very quickly.

Are you planning on mixing chemical in the darkroom? I try to do as much of that as I can now in the garage with the door at least partly open. I know you have been around the block enough to not need the wear a mask advise, but others on the list might benefit.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: new darkroom
From: shannon Stoney <shannonstoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, December 21, 2011 4:07 pm
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes, the upstairs bedroom is right next to a bathroom, so I was considering not adding extra plumbing to the room. This bedroom is only used a couple of times a year at most, when somebody visits. It could possibly still accommodate a sofa futon while being a darkroom, but it is pretty small. I was wondering about the windows: good to know that they could easily be blacked out.

If I make an outbuilding, I was considering just putting a little electric oil heater in there. There are many days in TN when you don't need any AC, unlike TX. In my TX darkroom, I almost always had to have the AC on, and on a few days I needed the heater. There was no in between!

--ss

On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:03 PM, <mark@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Shannon permitting he just mentioned might be an issue in some places of Tn. Other places it may not even be a consideration. After all there are a few places still left in Tn that if you are not known, you better holler before you head up the hill.

It might not seem like it but I built a 24 x 30 metal outbuilding this past summer. Well here in Tx in the summer time you might call that an easy bake oven. Without insulation, I could not stay in there longer than 15 minutes or so from the heat. Tn is better, but you are still going to need insulation and heat an ac.

The other problem with outbuildings is water. That you will face in all your options unless the spare bedroom has a bathroom. Point of use hot water should give you some options for a temporary type of system that you can run a water hose to a cabinet with a faucet. Some of those storage building type of options are far from light tight if you were thinking the storage type of set up from a Lowes or Home Depot. Building from scratch you could make the necessary changes at design vs dealing with it after its constructed. That however isn't an insurmountable hurdle.

I'd steer away from the cellar. Knocking out concrete isn't very tough to do with the right tools, but its probably knocking out part of the structural foundation of the home. To me it wouldn't be worth the risk of possible long term structural damage, unless someone that really knew what they were doing looked the situation over and determined how much and where it was safe to put the vent or vents. A small vent likely wouldn't be an issue. Multiple small vents might be preferable to one big vent. Concrete is strong, but cinder block can be deceiving. It looks much stronger than it actually is in many respects. Yet things run through foundations all the time. Just be smart about how much you bust out and where.

The humidity and dust would be as much of an issue to me unless you totally finished it. If you hung a drywall ceilings and walls, it might be an option and could have more benefit as something else when the time came to move the house on to its next occupant. An out building has value as well so it likely would be a trade off.

Number 3 likely is the most practical from a cost perspective. The big question though is this. Does it still need to function as a bedroom while you use it as a dark room? If so how big is it? Building something to go over the window that is essentially a wooden box that can be attached to the wall over the window isn't a big deal. I have a shutter that I have attached inside to cover mine, but its not nearly as light tight. I usually work at night however so its not as much of an issue.

Doors for me were more of an issue. If the bedroom is big enough and does not need to be a bedroom while a darkroom, then you might consider building a light tight entry. Your bigger problem might be water.

I wouldn't worry so much about spills. Bathrooms are upstairs all the time and they don't have a problem. (unless you are like my wife's uncle that thought he turned off the water and then removed a faucet. He didn't open a value to confirm the water was off and after the connection was off he knew. Before he got the water turned off with the right valve the ceiling in the kitchen below was now the new floor) What you will have an issue with is anything inside the house will likely have to be done to code. Some localities might require the install to be done by a licensed plumber and others not. Running water pipes, drains ect will be far more an issue there, and I wouldn't cut as many if any corners with an upstairs darkroom. Getting pipes behind dry wall is a mess and drains are even less fun. Unless what you add could be later turned into an extra bath, its likely not going to add any value to the home. Would be much easier if you wash somewhere else. I loaded film in a changing bag for a very long time and washed in a regular bathtub, but its a pain.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: new darkroom
From: "K W Hart" <kwhart1@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, December 21, 2011 1:07 pm
To: <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

1. I did the cellar routine when I was in high school, and it wasn't good.
Humidity was uncontrollable. Dust was terrible- every time someone walked
around upstairs, dust fell from the exposed rafters and floorboards.
2. A free-standing outbuilding would be expensive in that all walls would be
exterior and have to be insulated. Plus there is the hassle of permitting.
And if you have to specify that it's a photo darkroom, someone may get the
idea to notify the sewer authority about chems going down the drain.
3. Water runs downhill, and any spills in your upstairs darkroom could end
up coming through the ceiling of the room below. In order for a room to be
counted as a bedroom, it has to have a window- usually a problem for a
darkroom.

That said, I agree that option #3 is probably your best bet. A single sheet
of linoleum for a floor covering will protect the downstairs from small
spills. Careful handling of the window can provide you with the ventilation
you need. The door can probably be sealed for light. And depending on the
heating/cooling in your home, odors in the rest of the house can probably be
handled by the window ventilation.

Good luck with your new darkroom!
Ken Hart
kwhart1@xxxxxxxxxxxx

----- Original Message -----
From: "shannon Stoney" <shannonstoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 5:53 AM
Subject: [pure-silver] new darkroom

I am moving my darkroom from TX to TN, and I'm trying to figure out what is
the best way to build the new one. Here are the choices:

1. Retrofit a root cellar so that it is less humid. Problems will be
knocking out some of the concrete block wall for ventilation.

2. Build a little outbuilding.

3. Retrofit an upstairs bedroom.

Right now I'm leaning toward #3, but my darkroom has always been in the
garage before, and I'm wondering if it will be hard to keep it clean enough
so that it doesn't cause odors in the rest of the upstairs.

Thanks for any thoughts you might have.

--shannon============================================================================================================To
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[pure-silver] Re: new darkroom

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