[liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: [liblouis] r715 committed - the last batch of files converted to utf-8.
- From: "John J. Boyer" <john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 12:03:51 -0500
Hi Timothy,
Are you running Orca on CentOS? Wouldn't that be needed to use
gnome-terminal? I'm presently using ssh to access my Linux system from
an Elba braille display with a qwerty keyboard. I don't know if I want
to take the time to install Orca, especially as results are not
guaranteed. I may wind up not being able to work on the tables in Linux,
but I do very little with them anyway.
John
On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 06:40:42PM +0800, Timothy Lee wrote:
> Dear John,
>
> Searching on Google returns this:
> http://brl.thefreecat.org/text-apps-a11y-test.html
>
> It appears to suggest that only gnome-terminal with accessible to
> brltty. Perhaps you can try running vim or nano inside gnome-terminal.
>
> Regards,
> Timothy
>
> On 07/04/2012 02:58 PM, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >Hi Timothy,
> >
> >I asked about editors on the Blinux list, and got similar information
> >about vim. However, I am using a Braille display. and I am running at
> >the command line. My machine recognizes my display as vt100. I need
> >something that will display UTF-8 as its hex value and that will allow
> >me to type it in as a hex value as well.
> >
> >John
> >
> >On Wed, Jul 04, 2012 at 12:50:05PM +0800, Timothy Lee wrote:
> >>John,
> >>
> >>I am on CentOS 5. I use VIM for programming purposes, and it fully
> >>support UTF-8 under xterm / gnome-terminal. I've also briefly tried
> >>nano, and that also supports UTF-8 file encoding.
> >>
> >>However, both command line editors must be running under X Windows to
> >>gain font support for drawing non-ASCII characters.
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>Timothy Lee
> >>
> >>On 07/04/2012 06:56 AM, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >>>I'm waiting for the Europeans to come back online. It's night there now.
> >>>In case we have a consensus to use UTF-8 we can fall back to Latin-1 if
> >>>an invalid UTF-8 character sequence is encountgered. In this case there
> >>>would be a warning message.
> >>>
> >>>Linux text editors are intended for use with programming languages. I'm
> >>>looking for one that can handle UTF-8.
> >>>
> >>>I work at the command line because I find GUI's hard to use. There are
> >>>others who have been blind from birth who don't have this problem.
> >>>Perhaps trining would help, but I have never been able to afford it.
> >>>
> >>>John B
> >>>
> >>>On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 03:06:39PM -0700, John Gardner wrote:
> >>>>Okay I'm putting in my vote for UTF8. It is the coding I use all the
> >>>>time,
> >>>>and it works great with all screen readers as long as we are dealing
> >>>>with
> >>>>characters in the first Unicode sheet. Screen readers work perfectly
> >>>>with
> >>>>such characters, although many of them do not come by default with
> >>>>pronounciation dictionaries for all characters.
> >>>>
> >>>>It is not really relevant to the present discussion, but FYI, the
> >>>>trouble
> >>>>for screen readers comes in pronouncing characters in higher sheets.
> >>>>This
> >>>>gets out of my range of expertise really fast. The only characters
> >>>>that I
> >>>>have ever needed to pronounce that are not in the loest sheet are math
> >>>>characters that are bold, italic, Fraktur, etc. For me, it meant that I
> >>>>could not use them in LEAN Math, but this is a minor nuisance at best.
> >>>>
> >>>>I use Notepad and Notepad++ as my text editors, and both work perfectly
> >>>>well
> >>>>with UTF8. I am really quite surprised to hear that there are still
> >>>>text
> >>>>editors in use that do not do UTF8. It is the most common coding in use
> >>>>in
> >>>>western countries today. UTF16 is a bit more efficient for Chinese and
> >>>>other such languages, but UTF8 does work for those.
> >>>>
> >>>>John G
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>[mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J.
> >>>>Boyer
> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 1:32 PM
> >>>>To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: [liblouis] r715 committed - the last
> >>>>batch of files converted to utf-8.
> >>>>
> >>>>Hi Mesar,
> >>>>
> >>>>I would be interested to see an editor for Linux that works at the
> >>>>command
> >>>>line and supports UTF-8 conveniently.
> >>>>
> >>>>However, i want to see more of a consensus. So who else wants UTF-8 in
> >>>>the
> >>>>character argument of opcodes? It might be a good idea to start a new
> >>>>thread
> >>>>with this question.
> >>>>
> >>>>John
> >>>>
> >>>>On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 06:00:06PM +0100, Mesar Hameed wrote:
> >>>>>On Tue 03/07/12,11:17, John J. Boyer wrote:
> >>>>>>I feel that it is important that the tables should be human-readable
> >>>>>>and editable with simple text editors.
> >>>>>Human readable is exactly one of the cases why we should move to utf8.
> >>>>>\xhhhh is not really readable.
> >>>>>If i write the word "hello" as:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>word \x0068\x0065\x006c\x006c\x006f 125-15-123-123-135
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Its not really readable.
> >>>>>Of course "hello" here is just an example to illustrate what has to be
> >>>>done for non a-zA-z languages.
> >>>>>unicode is now an old and established standard, and is used for the
> >>>>>majority of documents across the web, many simple editors support this
> >>>>>out
> >>>>of the box.
> >>>>>If you like we can help you to find an editor that will work with your
> >>>>tools and utf8 at the same time?
> >>>>>>I don't care that it doesn['t look pretty.
> >>>>>The point that Christian and I are trying to make is that \xhhhh
> >>>>>doesnt look very readable to us :)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>It makes things easier for people who have to maintain tables after
> >>>>>>the
> >>>>original author is finished with them.
> >>>>>That second person popping up is probably going to be another person
> >>>>>from that country, and will be able to read their letters using their
> >>>>screenreader much easier than having to match \xhhhh representation to
> >>>>individual letters.
> >>>>>If it was a sighted person, they are even less likely to find the
> >>>>>\xhhhh
> >>>>mapping intuative.
> >>>>>>Finally, I don't think it is a good idea to suddenly change a way of
> >>>>>>writing tables that has been used from the beginning.
> >>>>>The question is not suddenly, its a question of evolution over time to
> >>>>match changing needs.
> >>>>>Before, most of liblouis customers were either european or american,
> >>>>>which were served either by ascii or latin1, but with free
> >>>>>screenreaders
> >>>>and with lower costs for accessible materials and devices, we have to
> >>>>accommodate for new users.
> >>>>>My intention is not to be irritating, but simply expressing my view and
> >>>>feeding back to the project what I get from other sources.
> >>>>>Remember I sit on fences, I have people wanting and regularly asking
> >>>>>to have braille support both in nvda and orca for their languages, so
> >>>>>I decided to volunteer time to liblouis because it is a worth while
> >>>>project.
> >>>>>I am sure braille embossing in native languages or mixed language texts
> >>>>>is
> >>>>also often requested.
> >>>>>Our list of tasks still includes adding 21 indian languages, and as of
> >>>>>yet
> >>>>an uncounted numberof african languages.
> >>>>>Thanks for understanding.
> >>>>>Mesar
> >>>>>For a description of the software, to download it and links to project
> >>>>>pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>>--
> >>>>John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> >>>>http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>>Madison, Wisconsin USA
> >>>>Developing software for people with disabilities
> >>>>
> >>>>For a description of the software, to download it and links to project
> >>>>pages
> >>>>go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>>>
> >>>>For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> >>>>project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >>For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> >>project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
>
> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
--
John J. Boyer, Executive Director
GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
http://www.godtouches.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
Peace, Love, Service
For a description of the software, to download it and links to
project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
Other related posts:
