[liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: [liblouis] r715 committed - the last batch of files converted to utf-8.
- From: "John J. Boyer" <john.boyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 10:05:45 -0500
Hi Mesar,
If UTF8 is allowed in the character argument of opcodes, no characters
above 127 can be used. This would invalidate any tables using Latin-1.
People would not be able to simply type letters on their keyboards. I
think it is best if tables work with liblouis as it is now. Actually
implementing UTF-8 is not a problem. I just don't think it is the best
choice for people who use keyboards with accented letters, umlauts, etc.
John
On Tue, Jul 03, 2012 at 03:44:04PM +0100, Mesar Hameed wrote:
> Hi John B,
>
> We are in the following situation:
>
> 1. to proceed with straightforward multilanguage support, tables should be
> using utf8
>
> 2. Christian pointed out, that latin 1 based languages find it very ugly to
> convert oumlouts a gravs, etc to \xhhhh format, since you would get
> an always or word opcode that uses a word which may contain several \xhhhh as
> an operand.
> Note, this ugglyness is already enforced onto non latin languages.
>
> 3. we need to have opcodes accepting utf-8 arguments, not just ascii.
> I fully understand your point about text editors, but on the other hand, we
> are more adaptable than the person wishing to add support to
> their language, or to correct the dot representation.
> For them to find and understand the \xhhhh is probably harder than it needs
> to be.
> It would be simpler for them to type:
> letter <letter> <dots>
> where they can physically see their letter on the screen.
>
>
> 4. for a release, we either revert my conversions, force the \xhhhh on all
> languages (uggly, and a lot of manual work) or implement utf8
> support in operands.
>
> Personally I would vote for implementing utf8 support, since it has to be
> done in any case.
> Also there is little sence to force Latin1 tables to rewrite their nice
> looking words/always opcodes since they would have to be rewritten
> again as soon as utf8 support was implemented.
>
> All this, keeping in mind John Gardners email.
>
> What do you feel is best to do?
>
> Thanks,
> Mesar
> On Mon 02/07/12,13:50, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > It is certainly ok, with me. Let's get the tables workking with what we
> > have now by using the \xhhhh notation.
> >
> > John B.
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 10:08:45AM -0700, John Gardner wrote:
> > > Hello Mesar, on behalf of the BrailleBlaster steering committee, I
> > > understand and appreciate your concern about UTF8. Clearly we should have
> > > started that way.
> > > I have a suggestion for how to settle this issue. First of all, let's
> > > make
> > > the tables work with liblouis today. My suggestion is to put everything
> > > beyond 127 into the /x notation. At some later time, I would very much
> > > like
> > > to convert to using UTF8. Vic Beckley has begun working part-time for
> > > ViewPlus on liblouis items specific to the company, and he is presently
> > > waiting on us to give him a new list of things to do. In the meantime, I
> > > have asked him to work with you to do this improvement.
> > >
> > > Okay with all concerned? Thanks!!!
> > >
> > > John Gardner
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mesar
> > > Hameed
> > > Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 9:53 AM
> > > To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: [liblouis] r715 committed - the last
> > > batch of files converted to utf-8.
> > >
> > > 128 to 255 is the range for codepages, which is now depricated due to its
> > > inherent problems.
> > > For example we cant write german+russian texts, or swedish+greek etc.
> > > unicode will make sure that we will be able to support all combinations of
> > > languages at once.
> > >
> > > I believe that it can be done, but in a round about and error prone way.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mesar
> > > On Mon 02/07/12,10:16, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > > > My mistake. I meant to say 0 to 255.
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Jul 02, 2012 at 04:10:03PM +0100, Mesar Hameed wrote:
> > > > > Hi John,
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon 02/07/12,09:52, John J. Boyer wrote:
> > > > > > UTF-8 in the opcode arguments would be a bad idea. Since the
> > > > > > beginning, the character argument has accepted characters from 0 to
> > > 127 as valid.
> > > > > > UTF-8 conflicts with this.
> > > > >
> > > > > According to the standard 0 to 127 is exactly the same for ascii and
> > > > > for
> > > utf-8, so this is not a conflict.
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikipedia reitterates this:
> > > > >
> > > > > "The first 128 characters of Unicode, which correspond one-to-one
> > > > > with ASCII, are encoded using a single octet with the same binary
> > > > > value
> > > as ASCII, making valid ASCII text valid UTF-8-encoded Unicode as well."
> > > > >
> > > > > from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8
> > > > >
> > > > > I could dig up a more reputable source if its required.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Mesar
> > > > > For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> > > > > project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> > > > http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > > > Madison, Wisconsin USA
> > > > Developing software for people with disabilities
> > > >
> > > > For a description of the software, to download it and links to project
> > > > pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > > For a description of the software, to download it and links to project
> > > pages
> > > go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > >
> > > For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> > > project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> >
> > --
> > John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
> > Abilitiessoft, Inc.
> > http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> > Madison, Wisconsin USA
> > Developing software for people with disabilities
> >
> > For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> > project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
> For a description of the software, to download it and links to
> project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
--
John J. Boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
Abilitiessoft, Inc.
http://www.abilitiessoft.com
Madison, Wisconsin USA
Developing software for people with disabilities
For a description of the software, to download it and links to
project pages go to http://www.abilitiessoft.com
Other related posts:
